Would you try for child #3 in these circumstances?

[encoreunefois2019]

Posting here as didn’t get many replies on WWYD and feel as confused as ever!

Long post about whether to have a 3rd child AND what to do with frozen embryos.

I have a 6 year old son conceived via ivf.
He has a 2.75yr old brother who was a natural conception. Between the two boys we lost two pregnancies each in the first trimester - one was a frozen embryo and the other some months later was a natural conception.
The IVf was stressful despite the wonderful outcome and the two miscarriages were very difficult. The pregnancy with my youngest son was very fraught as a result as I feared it too would end in a loss.

We still have two embryos in storage. They are from our one and only fresh ivf cycle that gave us our eldest six years ago. We used one other frozen embryo from this cycle when trying for a sibling but that ended in early miscarriage.

I just don’t know what to do with the remaining two. They are both blastocysts and of decent quality on grading (not that is always a sign that they would be successful of course).

My husband is happy to stick with two children.
I hadn’t really thought much about having a third until very recently, but equally we had been keeping the embryos just in case. I had previously been keen to donate them to childless couples but the process is far from straightforward and would cost us too. And I worry that any children resulting would hate us for giving them away especially if they have an unhappy or abusive childhood. There are no guarantees. And new law changes mean they would be able to trace is once they turn 18...
I just turned 41 and would not be trying to conceive naturally at my age (and it would be unlikely to work anyway) but I feel like the embryos are one more chance that I would otherwise not have.
If we did a frozen cycle and it was not successful I don’t think we would try again as I don’t think I could take it mentally and also I would be older still, albeit by months. So potentially we will be left with one embryo to ‘destroy’ even if we do one more cycle. And that will be hard...

Reasons not to have another:

• Our time and money will be spread even more thinly across three children rather than two and the impact on our two existing children - attention, activities etc.
• No local family to support us.
• Starting again....back to the baby stage
• Impact on my career - I’m currently PT in a flexible job but would look to move of another baby wasn’t on the cards.
• Risk to my health (while the embryos are those of my 34 year old self, my body is now 41)
• Impact
• Need to change car (mine, DH has a company car that he can’t change and which wouldn’t accommodate 2 adults and 3 kids)
• Need to move house, if not before baby is born then within first year (we want to move anyway but a new baby would affect the timing)
• Bereaved / Elderly parents (mine) reasonably nearby who need what (limited) practical support and more emotional support that we can offer.

What a situation to be in... you must be going round and round in circles.

We made some frozen embryos before I started cancer treatment 8 years ago. Only ended up with two also and one didn’t survive defrosting whilst the other didn’t take after transfer. However we were fortunate that my fertility wasn’t affected and have since had more children naturally. In any event, we used the embryos before trying naturally since we didn’t want to end up with them ‘left over’ after we’d completed our family by another route.

We did this chiefly because we believe that life begins at conception and thus that those embryos were life and so should be given a chance. Is this your view? If so, it seems like you have to try to use them.

If it’s not, and your issue is more whether you’d be missing out on more children rather than not wanting to destroy (what someone with my views would see as) life, then the nature of the conception doesn’t strike me as particularly important. Do you want a third child? If so, this is a better shot at it than a natural conception due to the age thing. The considerations you’ve listed can be overcome, it just requires a change in your plans. Your post seems to say to me that you would like another child, but aren’t quite ready to admit that to yourself...

If one fails you could try again pretty soon with the next, so you could try both without too much delay: I therefore wouldn’t worry too much about that.

In your situation, even without my belief in when life begins, I’d go for it. That’s the impression I’m getting from your post anyway.

ricepolo - thanks for your reply and congrats on completing your family.

I have missed feelings about the embryos in that we have to be guided by science and I have to accept that embryos were created and lost in the treatment that gave us my eldest. So I’m not ‘pro-life’ like some in that sense. I wish I didn’t have embryos left over but if I hadn’t any children by this point I would be so glad to have them IYSWIM?

I feel like I wish I wasn’t in this position and that I had not needed iVF. We wanted to use them feeling a similar sense of obligation as you mention which is why we did one frozen cycle when trying to have baby #2. But the whole thing was traumatic with how it ended and I couldn’t face using more Frosties when we wanted to try again so we did natural and got lucky the second time (we lost the first natural).

So, I just don’t know.

My main worries are the pressure of a family of 3 kids, my age and more so as they kids get older and the gap between the eldest and any third.

If we go ahead and the first embryo works and gives us a baby we still have a fourth left which we won’t use (I definitely don’t want 4 children) and so the dilemma will still be there, as my logical husband says in his arguments against a third....

What's your heart telling you? Do you think you'd look back in ten years with regret if you don't push for a third?

You mention finances being more spread, are your current two likely to miss out? Or is the addition of the love of another brother/sister worth the financial spread?

Were it not for these embryos existing I would not be pushing to try naturally at my age nor to do fresh ivf. But the fact they are there makes me think I should try?

If it were me I’d put both of them in and see if it was meant to be or not but only if I had the finances. People are living to 100 and beyond now so 41 is nothing really.

Headstone - I know where you’re coming from but I couldn’t put both back in in one cycle as the risk of twins is too much of a worry. Blastocysts - which both embryos are - are slightly more likely to split into twins. It’s not a big risk but its higher than with an earlier stage embryo.
Very very very unlikely but two blastocysts could mean quads!! 😬

Can you take it one step at a time? Forget that you have two? Decide about what to do with one? Should you go for it and it result in a successful pregnancy, then your feelings about the other embryo may well change: you can’t really predict now how you’ll feel then.

Your last post has made me question my initial statement that you seemed keen on the idea. My other concern is that your husband isn’t on board and you must have both of you in agreement either way. If you were enthusiastic about having another child though would he be (ie is he responding to your feelings)?

Would you consider donating them to research? Surely this is easily done?

Doubt you’d even be allowed to put both back; think clinics are quite strict on that now.

I wouldn’t worry too much about your age or the gap. I’d think carefully though if you thought having a #3 would prevent you from achieving what you want to as an individual, be that in your career or anything else non-family. That’s a big potential sacrifice.

I guess think through every potential outcome and genuinely try to work out your feelings in each scenario.

Does your clinic offer counselling? That might be a useful way to determine your true feelings...

Sorry: that’s a lot of not really connected thoughts!!

I'm not in your situation as haven't experience ivf but we're debating number 3 a in fact we've been debating for a year. We have two daughters 8 and 4. Dh and I are 38 and 31 respectively and our issues are financial and practical rather than emotional. Just saying really I understand the quandary albeit a different one.

I think you want it because you wouldn't be tying yourself up in knots with pros and cons lists if you didn't. I'd say go for it, your chances of it taking are probably low, and if you go into that knowingly, and with all the pros of sticking with two, I don't think it will be as traumatic as last time. Is there a reason you can't transfer both at the same time?

Transferring two carries the risk of twins: ie a riskier pregnancy. Plus the risk the OP mentioned of them splitting.

For these reasons I believe that doctors are unwilling to transfer two.

I answer to your question, no.

You've given a raft of reasons for why it's a bad idea and nothing compelling to argue for doing it.

You have two children. You are 41. You've had a difficult last PG and two miscarriages. Don't be silly. Be grateful for what you have a don't push your luck.

I wouldn’t, personally. It doesn’t so much sound as if you’re yearning for
a third child so much as you feel a sense of obligation to the remaining embryos. I wouldn’t put so much at risk (my health, career trajectory, family stability) unless I really, really desperately wanted another child.

I’m truly grateful for what I have and that’s partly why I am considering another iyswim, as I adore my kids and their relationship with each other.

I do also feel a strong sense of obligation to the embryos, I know not everyone does or would but it’s a big factor in my thinking.

Today I’ve made an appointment for counselling at my fertility clinic. Me and DH will go along together. I hope it will help us clarify what we really want and separate her from head.
It may not seem logical to some to even be considering this ‘at my age’, especially as we have two children already, and I do understand that. But for peace of mind I need is to get to a decision we are both comfortable with and which will no doubt involve compromise.

Being devil’s advocate I asked DH to help me come up with reasons why anyone, whatever their circumstances, has a third or greater number of children by choice. Biological drive seemed to be the only one we could come up with.