Advice needed, Dp sperm morphology really low

[1Wish]

Hi everybody,
Had my appointment with the specialist yesterday, who has confirmed I'm not ovulating, so I've been prescribed clomid

But as another blow i was not expecting dp sperm tests have come back dodgy. Count and movement are fine but his morphology is was only 1% on the first test and 2% on the secound. A normal count should be at least 15%.

The consultant said our chances of concieving are low but we should try with clomid for a year and then go for ivf.

I am absolutly gutted as i was sure it was just me who had problems. If anyone has any advice on how to improve morphology or their own stories it would be greatly appreciated.

The specialist just said 'keep your balls cool' basically, but im wondering if anyone's dp/dh has had supplements, diet or anything that helped them. thankyou

sorry, no help, but sad that this has happened for you. but its also good that steps are being taken iyswim? Good luck

I was very sorry to read your story. Unfortunately as you have discovered subfertility is not just a female problem.

I would seriously consider seeking a second opinion from another unit and see what they say. Usually women are kept on clomid for no more than six months and this is also not going to address the morphology problems.

Has your partner been referred to a urologist?. This is not going to be addressed by diet and or supplements alone.

Another important parameter in the semen analysis is the morphology, or shape of the sperm. The shape of the sperm is a reflection of proper sperm development in the testicle, or spermatogenesis. Men with a defect in sperm maturation tend to have problems with sperm morphology and may then be at risk for failure of their sperm to fertilize their partner's eggs.

There are two methods for performing a semen analysis. Most clinical laboratories perform a crude estimation of the percentage of sperm in the ejaculated specimen that appear to have normal shape. Only specialized andrology laboratories have trained technicians that can perform a "strict" semen analysis. Only these "strict criteria" (also known as Krueger criteria) have been studied with regard to fertilization success or failure. If a man has a decreased number of normally shaped sperm on the Krueger strict morphology analysis, he is at risk of fertilization failure or at least low rates of fertilization. However, an increased number of abnormally shaped sperm with 'non-strict' criteria may indicate a fertilization problem, but to be certain this test should probably be repeated in a laboratory that performs strict analysis. Strict morphology is a useful test to perform with couples that have unexplained infertility, even if the semen analysis and non-strict morphology are otherwise normal.

Urologic Examination

Once an abnormal finding on a semen analysis is identified, the male partner should be referred to an urologist, preferably one that is sub-specialty trained in andrology (the urologist version of a reproductive endocrinologist) for an examination and a review of his medical history. Usually, a repeat semen analysis will be recommended by the urologist/andrologist as there is significant variability from specimen to specimen. The urologist will usually want to examine a urine sample to rule out infection or evidence of kidney or bladder problems.

If the size of the testicles is less than expected, the male will be tested for hormone levels of FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) and testosterone. He will also be examined to see if he might have a varicocele, a plexus of dilated veins in the scrotum that is associated with infertility. If an obstruction of the sperm collection or transport system anatomy is suspected, additional tests may be recommended.

My husband has a lower morphology rate than average of around 5%, but the consultant advised he was still not worried as it still produced millions of sperm, I think it is more critical if the sperm count is low. Morphology rate is where some are not developed as well and can't swim well. (our GP described it as backwards sperm - nice!) I was completely freaked out, but my husband had to cut down alcohol, cig's, bad foods and concentrate on fish, red meats and you can take Zinc and vitamin C to improve the quality.
I know your husbands is lower than mine and it must be a shock, but it is still very possible to get pregnant and to increase his rate further.
(I fell pregnant after 18months - we however lost the pregnancy, but still got pregnant!) We are trying again now and my dh really needs to try exercise as well.... which should help! However the 18 months was put down to unexplained fertility rather than anything to do with my husbands rate, so they really did not see it as a problem.
Really hope things work out for you, best of luck and best wishes!

1wish - sorry you've had such bad news. Your story sounds very similar to ours. We found out that I wasn't ovulating, and that dh had a really, really rubbish sperm count - poor morphology and motility and very low volume - the triple whammy!

Anyway - we were told that ICSI was our only way forward. DH's sperm wasn't good enough for IVF.

I started having acupuncture and when my hormone levels were tested 3 months later, I was ovulating normally.

We took a deep breath and made some big lifestyle changes. No alcohol, smoking, caffeine, red meat or cow dairy (switched to goat dairy), acupuncture for both of us, yoga for me, chinese herbs for dh and lots of vitamin and mineral supplements for us both.

18 months later, the month before we were due to start IVF, I found out I was pregnant. Glorious, beautiful, miracle dd is now 2 and a half.

We'll never know if our life style changes made the difference, or whether it was just time and luck. However, making the changes made me feel more in control which kept me calmer.

There's a good book called "Natural Solutions to Infertility" by Dr Marilyn Glenville - it's really worth a look.

Good luck. Keep hoping and dreaming because it really can happen!

AttilaTheMeerkat - sorry crossed posted... god you are the font of all knowledge!

Do you think we should raise some more issues around this with our fertility consultant? They have always dismissed my husbands rate as being OK, even though its at 5%. Do you think IUI will help if he has this problem?

My husband also has problems with his kidneys, nothing major and has never been diagnoised with anything, but we think he has a small blockage.... do you think the two could be related?

Sorry for the hijack 1Wish...

Just remembered, another friend of mine who had ICSI for her first child (successful after 3 cyles) and then had 3 more unsuccesful cycles has just had a baby girl, conceived naturally.

See, another good news story!

Thankyou so much everyone.
rahrah you are now my online expert
How does this sound to you then
1st test
Total count 80 million
motility- 49%
morphology- 1%

2nd test
Total count 140 million
motility- 52%
morphology- 2%

I know there's abit more to it than that, but thats what i remember. What was your husbands?, do you think i've got a chance?

1 wish

Your dh's sperm analyis looks positively enormous compared to my dh's. So yes, you must have a chance, because we got there!

I'll have to see if I can dig out dh's analysis.

And thankyou Littlefish you've made my day

We had out tests ages ago... I can't remember the figures and they were not given to us in such detail. I have a fertility appointment on the 3rd July, so I am going to ask for all the reports...

To be honest they have just dismissed all our problems as minor problems and nothing to worry about. However it took us 18months to conceive our first child, then we lost him due to complications in the pregnancy and then we have been trying again for 7 months. My obstetrician said for him there are too many indicators presenting themselves, but they don't have a clue what the issue is? So he has discharged me until I am pregnant again and placed me back with the fertility consultant. I have slight PCO, but not bad enough for clomid as I ovulate and my husband has 'slow' sperm, but they said neither issues were to be worried about and it is just a matter of time. Easy for them to say! I think as long as sperm is there there is always a chance, however the chances are reduced.

Already a women only has a 25% chance of conceiving monthly (Att will correct me if I wrong in my figures) and then presented with other issues, this can be reduced. But it only takes one sperm and one egg to be well timed and there you go! So in some respects it is a matter of time. But you can only wait so long. I think your consultant has got a clear plan and is thinking ahead for you with good timescales. Ours however is still waiting on a timescale that seems to be on the never never! Once you find someone you can trust and relax with, I strongly believe that this helps. Also I would takes some life style changes into consideration. I really beleive they work and also make you more active and relaxed. My husband has slipped back into his old ways a bit (I don't blame him, but he needs to get more fit) and I think it will really make a difference again.

RahRah1 i'm so sorry to hear of your problems and your loss.
I would definatly go back and demand more tests, they can't just leave you in limbo.
Admittedly it taken us ten months from when we 1st saw the doctor to get to this point, so it's definatly worth badgering them. Good luck

Thanks Iwish and I really hope everything is resolved quickly for you guys aswell.... Good luck with the clomid, should get you ovulating pretty quickly.

Littlefish - has certainly proved that its more than possible..

Best Wishes XX

Ok - for those who can decipher it.

Volume = 1.5mls (should be 2 - 4mls)
Concentration = 16 x 10to the power of 6/ml (should be 20 x 10to the power of 6/ml)
Progressive motility = 22% (should be greater than 50%
Rapid progression = 5%
NOrmal forms = 3% (should be greater than 15%)
Concentration 4 x 10to the power of 6/ml (should be 10 x 10to the power of 6/ml

This was the best test we had. The three subsequent ones were worse, but I can't find the paperwork!

Just a thought 1wish, but has your dh been tested for things like cystic fibrosis? It turned out that my dh was a carrier, which may be a contributing factor.

I am so asking for my husbands results... My husband has been asked to go for genetic testing, is that what you hubbie had?

Ahrrgg littlefish don't say that. No he hasn't been tested.
Consulatant mentioned that men who do alot of long distance driving may be at risk from low morphology. Dp does travel all round the country. unfortunatly there's not much we can do about that, as it's part of his job.

I've joked he should sit on icepacks but he's not keen!!!

other thing thats getting me is dp is completly unwilling to talk about it, my mum says he's probaly in shock and that's how men deal with it, but i feel so alone. He's to black and white about issues and just says we'll see what happens. I'm the complete opposite I spend every minute day dreaming, planning and saying 'what if', and he just gets annoyed with me.
Sorry to rant

1Wish {{{{{HUGS}}}}}, my husband is exactly the same, every issue is black and white. I have to tip toe around every issue. But it will come to a point where he will have to talk about it as you will need treatment, or you fall pregnant naturally. Once either of those things happen he will instantly become emotionally involved. It is so hard for a man to find anything wrong with their fertility. I found my husband to be very guarded, but I think he was petrified about the whole situation.
Men are strange creatures and deal with everything so differently. I had to learn to give my DH some space from the whole situation... which was and still is frustrating for me, as I don't want to waste time for him to get his head round things etc etc... I know if the consultant advises on treatment for me and Dh this time, he will be hesitant. Where I would be 'at least something is happening'!!

My dh really struggled with the news at first. I think it's just such a blow to them, and something they really feel they can't share with anyone else (friends I mean). Give him time 1wish. DH and I always dealt with it very differently. I wanted to rage, scream and cry at the unfairness of it all and dh just wanted to ignore it. Having acupuncture really helped me because at least half the session was spent just talking to the practitioner about how I was feeling. It gave me an outlet to explore some very distressing issues in safety. It also took dh much longer to come round to idea of giving up alcohol and caffeine. I gave up at least 6 months before him.

When dh decided to tell his very close friends that he was giving up drinking because of the IVF, they were unbelievably supportive, even when they went away on a lads holiday! My lovely dh didn't drink for the whole week and they respected that and didn't try and persuade him otherwise.

Yes rahrah, dh had genetic testing and then because he was a carrier, I had to be tested too. Luckily, my tests came back normal, so although dd could be a carrier like dh, we knew that she would not have cystic fibrosis.

Thanks RahRah1 I thought it was just mine who was being an insensitive git.
I know he's gutted to and i should be symthathetic (sp) to his feelings. He thought he'd have a really high one and was joking that we'd frame the results!! He's a very manly man and i guess his ego's abit dented.
Can I just say it's so lovely being able to talk about this with others as there's no one in the real world i can talk to about it who understands.

Sorry crossed threads with you littlefish, bless your husband for not drinking on a lads holiday, thats commitmnet for you

My husband was given the test request in Jan 07 as he refused to have it at the clinic the day we were there. We had a certain amount of drama over the sperm tests and now it looks like he is quite set against the genetic testing. I think he is very scared they will find something wrong with him that lead to us losing our child or implications for future children. I however have had every test under the sun. He has only ever been asked for a bit of sperm and some blood! How did your husband deal with the genetic testing and then results? I keep approaching the subject and he does not want to discuss it at those points

I know what you mean 1Wish, everyone in my family and friends circles have no problem conceiving. In fact we started trying at around the same time as quite a few friends and some even have 2 kids now! Its just pants! Its so good to be able to ask questions and advise of others... XX

Except I should be doing some work, instead of talking all day!

RahRah i know my partners not had genetic testing but i can symphathis (sp) about the sperm tests. Dp makes such a big deal of it, we've had massive arguments cos i've had about 10 blood tests (i'm scared of needles!) a hsg (ouch) and numerous other invasions. All he has to do is wank in a pot, sorry!!!!
Thats not counting the constant battle of fertility spotting, symtom spotting and dread when af arrives. sounds cold but men get it easy really, the least i feel they could do is be more enthusiastic about implementing a few lifestyle changes!!

I think when the initial testing was suggested, it seemed such an impossibility that anything could be wrong, that dh just agreed to the test.

When the CF result came back, he was completely floored by it. There has never been a history of CF in his family so it was absolutely unexpected.

It's really hard not to try and see into the future and play everything through to the worst case. I, obviously, immediately convinced myself that I would be a carrier too, and that we would therefore need to have pre-implant genetic testing as part of our IVF. (I'm a bit of a drama queen too!)

Once I got the all-clear and we knew any children we had could not have cystic fibrosis, we relaxed a bit. Obviously, the issue will come up again, because at some point (probably when she's about 14), dd will need to be tested.

The funny thing is that dh talked to his parents about it, because obviously one of them is a carrier and it has implications for the cousins on one side of the family or other. To my amazement, they haven't done anything about it. That feels really wrong to me. 1 in 25 people is a carrier of CF and imagine how they'd feel if one the cousins had a child with CF.

LOL - totally agree!

I have had a lap and dye as well and had so much blood taken its unreal. I have had many internals and a couple of camera's in a place I really would not like one!
I had my genetic test ages ago and you just take a deep breath when they read out the results and deal with what ever is there. There is one thing certain in life if something is there you can not change it, but you can work with it once you know about it.
Do you also get the drama around ovulation time when they are too tired or not in the mood... but every other time they are bloody up for it!
And when this is all over and we are pregnant...yes its the women that has to deal with all the body changes and procedures still! God men get it so easy!