Secondary infertility - anyone else?

[Huncamuncaa]

Anyone in this boat?

I have a DS now 3. Before him I had one miscarriage and since he was born 3 further mcs. The last one was over a year ago. We made the decision to stop trying for a bit as we couldn't take the emotional turmoil and I had just been offered a promotion at work and so decided to focus on that for a year or so instead.

We weren't particularly worried as had a child and are both 32 so fairly young. We also had a few NHS tests which revealed nothing. A couple of months ago wanted to start trying again and decided to pay for further private tests. I have high immune cells which could be a factor and I'm being treated for. We have since had my OH results back and his sperm quality is really poor. I can't remember the figures but we were told this is the reason for the miscarriages. It is not the quantity but the quality.

He's going to try to make some life style changes but he isn't that unhealthy. Not a smoker or a big drinker. A stressful job his probably the worst thing. If that doesn't work IVF but I don't know if I can emotionally cope with it.

Turns out taking that promotion was the worst idea I've ever had. I think I was kidding myself that I didn't want to try for another child and the job turned out to be unmanageable. I know I am so blessed to have my son but because of him our social life revolves around young families and babies. He is likely to not have any cousins and he constantly asks if he can have a brother or sister which breaks my heart. The house is full of packed away baby things I might never need again. I bought a bigger car than I needed to during one of my pregnancies because it needed to fit a double buggy soon. I was so naive. We were always talking about the 3 kids we were going to have and thought the first couple of pregnancies were just bad luck.

My job made me really unwell and I gave my notice in recently and took something less stressful. In all honesty I don't feel completely mentally well. I am very tearful. This week I broke down in tears when I had a regular smear test because I think I had had enough of invasive tests on my reproductive system and was convinced I was about to be given more bad news. Pretty embarrassing.

I am hoping that my new job will improve my mental well being but I am beginning to think that perhaps a lot of my stress is to do with this secondary infertility. I am now worried that we will have to have IVF to have another child and I'm not sure I could mentally cope with it. I hate the thought of the process and the emotional roller-coaster. I hated the private clinic I had the miscarriage tests in. I hated the fact that they were making money out of our misery. I actually think I could cope with another miscarriage better than IVF.

Does anyone have any success stories of improving sperm quality naturally? This is what I'm really hoping for but is it realistic?

Or does anyone want to share their secondary infertility experiences? I have a couple of friends who are going through IVF but I don't feel like I can share my feelings with them as I am fortunate enough to have a child. I just wish I had known when he was born what a miracle he was.

I was waiting for someone with direct personal experience to answer before I jumped in with my twopenneth worth.....but - with that caveat - here's mine.....

I've known several people who have suffered from secondary infertility and, as I did for them, I have huge sympathy for you and your position. It must be hard not to be able to have the family you hoped you would have, not least because people are often very insensitive about asking when you're going to have another. But of all the people I've known in this position, the happiest one was the one who, like you, saw her child as a miracle and went on to concentrate on the family they actually had, rather than throwing all her energy and finances into getting the second child at all costs. Another person I know who did the opposite and threw herself heart and soul into getting the second child was eventually successful, after many rounds of IVF, but I have to suspect that this came at huge cost to them, both financially and as a family. She was fixated on the idea of replicating the family set up she had had - but that was two children two years apart and that was impossible once that gap had passed. She ended up with two children eight years apart. Nothing wrong with that at all, don't get me wrong - but the reality of that is very different from what she'd had in mind when she started and the whole process has been very tough on her older child.

I'm an only child, so I speak from experience. I have two kids, who get along brilliantly. But I am very, very lucky that they do; it's by no means guaranteed. The "sibling to play with" scenario doesn't always materialise. And there is nothing wrong about having an only child. Like anything in life, there are pros and cons of it. If you can maximise the positives while seeking to minimise the negatives, then you'll get a great outcome.

If you don't fancy IVF, then why put yourself through it? I think if I were you I'd just vow to enjoy the here and now and enjoy your time with your son.

Not sure that's helpful! Wishing you all the best.

Thanks. I think i am really in agreement with you but its just a big shock which i dont think either of us were expecting.

Im well aware of the randomness of age gap and whether siblings get on. You cant really plan life and families and i should accept that. I know that part of my feelings stem from losing my own sister to a horrible illness. I have this need for my son not be alone. Logically of course hes not and i know plenty of very happy only children.

I also feel worse because i feel like ive perhaps thrown away career opportunities to focus on this issue. I was right to leave because i wasnt coping but its all making me feel really down.

I think maybe these results and the way im feeling is a wake up call for our life styles. I think sperm quality is an indicator of over all health so my OH does need to make changes regardless and then see if it improves.

Would we be idiots to try and conceive naturally again? It seems so odd to use contraception when youre desperate for another baby.

Thanks for listening.

Hi here is my story. I have pcos. Took 18 months ttc DS I took agnus castus and lost some weight around that time. We didn't use protection since having him he's 5.5 yrs now. Only got appointment for referral to gynae in March. Had internal ultrasound all looked good. I had been having regular periods but like you took a promotion last year to a more pressurized position and I became more stressed with high anxiety had a late cycle in December and March wishful thinking that I was pregnant but it was obviously the stress. Went for a HSG in May (anecdotally increases your chances). I also got so stressed I got signed off work for 1 month. DH had appointment for SA but letter went to old address so they discharged him had to be referred again. After HSG I started tracking ovulation and using Preseed started dtd a lot more too. In April I was taking Vitamin B6 for 3 months each month it lengthened my luteal phase by 1 day each month from 10, 11 & 12. I got some acupuncture in June and at start of July went to a kinesiologist. She got me to take a preconception multivitamin probiotics and to start Agnus Castus and bio silver. My jaw has been offset since having braces. She done a gentle procedure to help it, gave me a destressing treatment and said I had the milk allergy so I cut out dairy. DH awaiting SA has been off alcohol completely for 4 months, has been taking probiotics a multivitamin and a high dose of Zinc. He does smoke though. He includes wheatgrass fish oils and flaxseed and lots of protein in his diet. In June we dtd lots and it was 1 month after the HSG. I was convinced we'd done it and had ovulated cd18. Morning we went on holiday AF arrived very painful and lots of clots. I was heartbroken. I told DH we would not be givingup trying he said ok. I had no interest in ivf nor would I be able to afford it. I had started reading about the Serum clinic in Athens and was considering going there as last resort. They can offer tests and other treatment before ivf. I have been through the process of trying to be grateful that I have a child but I felt grief stricken at the thought of giving up on another but I read something where a doctor advised a mum she should concentrate all her efforts on the child she did have and not one she did not have...I felt guilty all the time. But like you DS constantly asks us for a sibling which breaks my heart. All his wee friend's have siblings and he is so kind and gentle with babies it would warm your heart.

This month I continued to use the opks but didn't ovulated to cd21 and my left ovary was in agony when I did I thought I had a burst cyst that day! We gave SMEP (sperm meets egg plan) a shot also. I got my BFP 11 days ago!!!! I am 6 weeks tomorrow and I am still in soooo much shock!! This is the first positive test I have had in 6 years. It is very early days but I feel really positive about it. We are bursting to tell DS and family and friends.

Do not give up if this is what you really want there are things to try. I am sure there are lots of ways to increase sperm quality research a bit more - it is trial and error but you don't know what could possibly work if you don't try. And be as positive as you can. Relax, treat yourself, keep calm, read affirmations, meditate! I think the biggest factor for us was stress plus the HSG gave me a clear out and boosted ovulation plus the changes DH made. He never got the second SA appointment through!

I am so sorry for your miscarriages 💐Good luck to you it is such a tough time but think it WILL happen 🤞☘

Thanks for sharing all that and congratulations! I hope everything goes well. Sounds like youve been through loads.

Im going to have to google a lot of that but it all sounds positive and useful.

My gut feeling is stress is a big factor. Before paying for miscarriage investigations i looked in to accupuncture for me. DH was a bit sceptical but read its good for male and female fertility. Now we know its him i dont know if he could be persuaded.

I guess what i really what is for us to be happy and if we are not happy right now then it puts more stress on ttc. Bloody vicious cycle, it seems!

Sorry for the essay!! But I wanted to let you know all the factors involved. It's amazing how many problems stress creates but after only a few months of specifically trying to reduce it we got results. I was also on antidepressants from March but began weaning off them in June so when I got pregnant I had no withdrawals stopping them!

Really happy for you.

Whats SMEP?

I have PCOS and have been trying for a second child since I had my implant taken out in September 2016. My husband had his sperm analysis last month which came back fine so back to the GP to get referred.
My dd is 4, 5 in two months took 16 months and loosing weight to get pregnant with her.
I have no willpower to loose weight this time and no time to exercise so know it is my fault I'm not pregnant because I'm too fat.
My period arrived yesterday I am having regular but long cycles and have had positive ovulation tests last few months but do seem to have a short lutereal phase.
Luckily no one has asked when we are having another as I would bite their head off at the moment. Wish I had never had the implant and just tried again as soon as I had my daughter as the gap is getting bigger and bigger and part of me just wants to give up and accept only having one. I do feel guilty as one of my friends desperately wants a baby but has been told endometriosis has left her infertile.
Another friend was trying for their first for years was a problem with her husbands sperm. Their IVF consultant advised him to give up cycling and then conceived 6 weeks before they were due to start IVF.

Sperm Meets Egg Plan- Google that there's a website. You begin dtd (doing the deed) on cd8 then every other day so CD8 CD10 CD12 etc. When you get a positive/peak opk (ovulation predictor kit) - dtd 3 days in a row, skip a day then dtd one last time!!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conception/3289857-Who-s-trying-SMEP-this-month.

You could join this thread the ladies on here have great support and advice!

Thanks ladies

Really hope it works for you Essex girl. I feel like i wish we'd had the tests sooner after the miscarriages. I just feel like my head had been in the sand. I

Im no longer thinking about the age gap as its out of my hands and i know siblings who are really close with big age gaps and some who arent of course so its not helpful to dwell on that. Its just whether we want the emotional drama of tryng to grow our family and what would make us happy. I just dont know.

Huncamuncaa- I’m so sorry you’re experiencing the shittyness of secondary infertility. It sounds like it was been really tough emotionally and having been through two years of it I can stand shoulder to shoulder with you on the pain and turmoil of the situation. You’ve mentioned a lot I can relate to - the plans and hopes for your old baby things, the family car, blaming yourself for being stressed, the emotional pain, the weighing up what to do. I just wanted to give you a big hug and tell you none of this is your fault, it’s shitty and hang in there. You mentioned your worry about your mental health which is brave and candid. Mine certainly suffered - ttc became obsessive for me, I thought about it all the time and found it increasingly difficult to be happy in my life despite having a good marriage, career, Home, family, friends and a beautiful daughter. It consumed my mind & I was very miserable. I sought out a talking therapy after a year of it and it did help me a lot to deal with the difficult emotions and pain, and to think about how I wanted to move forward. It was a game changer for me; I was no more pregnant by the end of the counselling than I had been at the start but I just had been able to process and I changed some of my habits. I gave up things I couldn’t have imagined like smep, early testing, and even took a short break. I had to stop thinking about the future in terms of things I couldn’t do because I might be pregnant and planned holidays and for life again as we knew it. Hubby and I decided we really wanted #2 and would go all in on the tests and IVF and whatever, and know even if it didn’t work we would be able to look back and know we had done it. I could only do this because mentally I was in a better place. The tests are so draining and I can understand you crying in the smear test I bawled with the GP one day and I don’t think he knew what to do with me!

My nhs consultant laid out the options for us - I had low AMH for my age, and signs of endo, hubby was fine. He recommended ivf self funded and gave us an option of a lap and dye to confirm and excise the endo which we ended up doing. We had ivf planned start in March this year but to our great surprise fell pregnant exactly two years after we started trying the very first cycle after the lap and dye. I’m 34 weeks gone now.

On the sperm stuff, there was a fantastic urologist we got second opinion on DHs sperm from called Dr Ramsay. I would really recommend an appointment with him private if you can for any malefactor concerns, really reassured us.

Know there is always some hope, even when it feels so shitty, but do look after your mental health first and foremost my dear as that’s what matters most. Even before I’d gotten pregnant, the counselling had helped me to turn a corner and find “the old me” again. Wishing you all the best xxx

I guess what i really what is for us to be happy and if we are not happy right now then it puts more stress on ttc. Bloody vicious cycle, it seems!

I think that's probably right. This may sound a bit trite, but can you take it back to basics and think about all the things (outside a second child) that would/do make you happy and aim to concentrate on those? Eg activities with your son, holidays etc? The process of planning concentrates your minds on something other than ttc and cycles etc and having some things in the diary to look forward to is probably good psychologically.

I'm absolutely not the expert on this - at all - but my thought from your last post was why does it have to be all out trying for a baby or nothing? Can't you step away from the "active" trying for a baby while not using contraception?

The missed career opportunities? Forget it. Everyone's a genius with hindsight and you don't know how that would have turned out in the actuality of it all. You made the best decision for you at the time. That's all anyone can do. Backward jobbing just makes you feel crap and potentially stops you making good decisions in the future.

It sounds trite (again), but in your shoes, I'd look to focus on my son. He's at a fabulous age now - and the one big advantage of not having a second child is that you can really focus on that and enjoy that time. There's a raft of things available for kids of that age which are bloody difficult to do with a baby or toddler in tow! That's the positive of the situation you're in, even if it's not one of your choosing. (FWIW, my friend who went for the classic, "bang on two years" age gap, has said she regrets it now for exactly that reason - she feels she missed out on her first DD going through that lovely toddler to preschooler stage because she had a difficult baby in tow.)

Many people here with wiser words than mine, I'm sure. Really hope it all works out well for you all.

Thanks so much for your wise words. Just nice to have an understanding ear. Going to try and get my head staight and concentrate on my son and trying to get a bit healthier as a family then maybe get DH sperm tested again and decide.

Me I think, although not confirmed. I had DS 8 years ago, a pregnancy when he was 3 which ended in miscarriage and then noyhing since. Not one positive. Dr's say your young keep trying, the tests I've had have revealed, show nothing DPs sperm are fine.

I love my DS but I desperately want another, although if it gets to ivf I know I couldn't afford it. So I'd have to learn to accept it. I have a test on the kitchen and my period was due today I'm too terrified to test because I know the answer and it'll make me sad knowing. It sucks.

Its so rubbish really feel your pain. I just wish id been aware when i had my son then i think i would have dealt with it better x

Yes. I have a 10 year old daughter from a previous relationship. Have been pregnant with my partner also back in 2015. We decided to actively start ttc almost two years ago and I’ve not had even a hint of a bfp. Had every test done possible, there is nothing seemingly wrong with either of us. It just isn’t happening. After joining several secondary/unexplained infertility groups, I found it’s not as uncommon as you think. There are women on there who have been trying for another baby for over a decade.

My fertility doctor said that because I’ve been pregnant before, the chances of me conceiving again are high. I conceived both times after one missed pill, 22 months of zero contraception and nothing. I’m gonna go ahead and say that that rule is BS.