Advice wanted from City lawyer mums

[Gangle]

I am thinking of starting TTC and dithering about when is the right time to try. I'm 30 and got married last year and would like to start trying soon. Problem is, I started a new job back in May 2006 and it's going very very well - lots of worldwide travel, promotion and very well paid AND I really enjoy it. Having had years of struggling with nightmare jobs I feel really lucky! So, I'm worried that having a baby will mean I can't do the hours I do or the amount of travelling and that, as a result, my career may take a nosedive. Would love to hear and of your experiences in how you juggled both and what impact having a baby had on your career. BTW, I'm 5.5 years PQE.

Gangle ? I am a lawyer too but not in the same City, I?m a Scots lawyer I am 8 years PQE. I got married last June and we have been trying ever since. We got pregnant in Jan only to lose the baby at 10 weeks. We?re both 33. My advice to your first question is not to leave it if you want a baby, you just don?t know how long it will take so be prepared either way.

I started a new job on 11/12 and got my BFP on 29/1, so ironic after months of trying!! Because things started to go wrong I had to tell work just at the point when my boss resigned and a massive opportunity arose for me. I had hoped to leave it a lot longer. The firm has been excellent; I have been so pleasantly surprised. It has not affected their perception of me in the slightest. I think they expected me to want a baby soon.

I am normally the most enthusiastic and motivated lawyer about but this experience has made me reconsider my priorities and family has to come first. Since My MC I?ve been cruising at work a bit, it has been such a difficult time.

I recognize that I am very lucky to work for a firm that believes in families.

My advice would be to go for it. Good luck!

Not sure this is what you want to hear, but in case my story helps....

I worked for a magic circle firm for 6 years then transferred to a bank for much the same hours but a better, more senior job. I thought I enjoyed the job and was convinced I would return to work after approx 6 months of maternity leave. But, within a day of having my lovely daughter last October I decided that returning to work wasn't for me, as I wanted to spend my time with my DD not commuting, working long hours and dealing with poxy clients all day.

This has meant a huge change to our lifestyle, we are downsizing etc but I have massive support from my husband and family in my choice. I am really lucky in being able to make this choice and not return to work now, and cannot imagine going back to work in the city. Having not been to London for 6 months it seems like a distant bad dream and so not what I want to do with the rest of my life. We are going to start our own business this year to make up for the lack of pension etc, but I will be a full time mum nevertheless. I never knew I would enjoy motherhood so much as I do, should have done this years ago

Hi Gangle. I'm not a lawyer but have a legal-type job. My comment would (possibly unhelpfully) be "there's never a right time". There will always be some reason why you might defer having a child. And working whilst having a small child will be jolly hard whatever your circumstances. So I would say - if you feel you want to do so now (which I think from your post that you do), then go for it. Everything else will work out around that. Somehow...

And of course - good luck!

Are you thinking about your partnership prospects? - if so, about 10 years ago my bossy (female, mother, partner) supervisor told me the sharpest route is "make partner first, then [implication: asap - get pregnant the next week] have your children". Worked for her. You're young enough, yet PQE enough, to consider that route.

But, separately, you may be doubting the partnership commitment thing. That's another issue and probably would mean different suggestions.

I have just deleted a long post. I would say go for it, have a baby and then see how you feel. You can't predict.

Ask yourself why there are so few senior women solicitors with children. See how those that there are succeed. Undoubtedly, to some degree, some firms are more family friendly than others. Also (and I'll say this before Xenia does) it depends on what your dh does and how much he can contribute.

There are also many threads on here about City Lawyers.

I was in your position and decided to go ahead and have a baby. I didn't see the point of putting off something that I couldn't do forever while I waited for something that might never happen (partnership). Personally I think it is possible to combine career and baby - I do a lot of working from home at night, but I like working and would not have it any other way. I did not know I would feel like this before I had my daughter and when she was first born couldn't see how I would ever go back to work at all, much less full time. It just goes to show how your perceptions can change.

The reality is, though, that things do change and you are likely to have sometimes when you need to go home in early to deal with a sick child. That is just part of being a parent and hopefully your DP will deal with some of those times and it won't all be down to you.

Having a baby probably has hurt my prosects at my current firm, but then I had a really small chance of getting made up there anyway. I would have no qualms about moving jobs to improve my chances, so it is not the end of the world. I also think it is worth looking at whether either your employer or your husband's has a good record of flexible working - could your DP be home at 6 every night? If so, then that can really help.

I sidestepped the issue to a great extent by becoming a PSL before I had children.

Is there any chance they will make you up before you have a baby? The women I know who have most successfully combined motherhood with staying in private practice are those who were became partners before they started having children.

Sorry, I've just read that and it sounds very derogatory! I meant successfully from a conventional career point of view (ie the treadmill which assumes that partnership is the pinnacle of ambition). Not that you can't be a successful parent without being a partner!

I only know one person who waited to be a partner, and she was faced with the same issues as the assistants - she wanted to be part-time (and couldn't be) and constantly had to prove to the (male) partners that she was dedicated.

You will be able to do the hours/travel etc once you have the baby, but you can't know yet whether you will want to. I would say go for it, my family has fulfilled me more than my job ever did or would, but I would never have said that I loved my job.

Gangle, I was a corporate lawyer in the City, and had my first baby in 2004, second in 2006. My team and the firm have been great. I actually moved from London to the west country, resigned, rejoined, and now work as a PSL remotely for the same team. But only 2 days a week, so it's not exactly what it sounds like you want. I was never ambitious to be a partner in any event. However, also in my team there are 2 other women who both had babies last year. They now job share, doing 3 days a week each. I think it very much depends on the point of view of both your firm and your department. But I would say it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to juggle long hours and international travel with a baby, unless you have a full time nanny or partner whose work is more flexible. And you may find that you feel differently about it once you have a baby. One thing I've noticed working in the City is that there aren't that many women over 35 still working there unless they have the additional support at home, and that must say something about how child-friendly it is...

Easterbunny's point is a really good one - you never know whether it's going to be quick or not to conceive. And also that there'll always be a reason 'not' to have a child at any given time.

Good luck with your decision.

I would agree with Mollyhawk that there's never a right time. Now that I've had my dcs I feel very differently about what's important to me - and if you'd asked me when I was 28 what my priorities were, all I could think about was career and trying to get onto the partnership track.

My experience - I was 2 years pqe when I had ds1. Went back to work in same City firm after 6 months maternity leave working 4 days a week (but often clients needed me on my "day off" and I worked long hours on my 4 working days - so really 5 days crammed into 4). Also, I was too junior to call the shots so if there was a compromise to be made, it was always the family that bore the brunt. Dh and I managed to juggle with nursery pick-ups and emergencies, but it was a strain. Decided to be a SAhM when dd arrived - I was 5 years pqe then. We now have dc no.3 (ds2) aged 2 and am about to go back to the same firm as a part time PSL. So yes, I'm off the partnership track but I don't regret the choices I made because I know that my own quality of life and my family's quality of life is so much better than it would have been if I'd continued doing full time transactional work.

But so much depends on your support networks, reliability of childcare, how much your babies sleep, whether they're healthy, how much you can share responsibility with your dh...

Do you want to be a partner? If you do, work your butt off and then have the kids. Because lets be honest you will not have a hope in hell of becoming a partner otherwise. At the moment you are perfect fodder for the lawfirm, experienced and hungry - they will work you to the bone. But, by the time you become 7/8 years qualified you should have an idea of whether you are going to make it to partner.

I had my first kid at 31, second at 33 - was never going to be a partner which I already knew. Left by the time I was 34, took 9 months gross as my payoff for sexual discriminatin - oh happy days!

But I do know lots of woman who do manage to continue being lawyers and have kids - but nannies are expensive unless you have doting granny to look after your sprogs.

Bitter moi, not at all

No, I definitely do not want to be a partner! Hence why I moved in house at 2.5 years PQE which was more than long enough in the corporate department of a large city firm! Sorry, I should have spelt that out as it does make a difference. (Don't understand how anyone can have a baby pre-partnership and still make it there. I would certainly not want to be any of the few women I knew who achieved this.)However, although partnership isn't relevant, I got a promotion when my boss left and am now in quite a senior position and could hopefully go a lot further in a few years. Also worried that there is simply noone who could cover for me if I went on maternity leave so it would have to be either a secondment or a temp and I'm paranoid they might steal my job!

Kazz33, sorry to hear that happened to you. I've seen it happen many times. Although the law is supposed to protect you, in reality it doesn't stop many employers doing what they want. At least they have to pay you though!

Just to add, I think several people raised the key issue - you CAN continue working the hours you used to and travelling etc but you won't want to! I can't imagine it now but given how soppy I am about most things I think it's a fair estimate I will be a soppy besotted mummy (fingers crossed) and not want to be parted from my baby. I will never forget sharing an office with a partner when I was a trainee and witnessing her say good night to her daughter on the phone every evening. Just felt so sorry for the baby. Also, DH is a poor overworked doctor so safe to assume he will be zero practical help and that I will do everything!

I didn't realise you were in house. issymum might see this - she is full time in-house and I think PPH worked inhouse too. I am too, but part-time and little or no travel involved. You've summed it up well - you can combine motherhood and a career inhouse, but whether you will want to continue travelling etc is a different matter. In any case you need good childcare (hours are still longer than normal jobs ime) and support. I have taken 2 years out and didn't fall off the career ladder. Also if you are in-house, there must be more chance of job-share or part-time working than in private practice.

My last job was in house at a Bank. There were a lot of parents in the team but we were quite a big team so mat cover was not too great an issue though we did use secondees too. They did have a rule, legal or not, that you could not head up a team unless you worked full time. I think what many have said in response to you is right, you just don't know how you'll feel about work when the baby arrives.

I think the reality is it depends on your particular work place. My work has been incredibly supportive and understanding about me having children and having to take holiday at short notice in order to look after ds when he is ill. Unfortunately, I suspect my company's attitude is not the norm in the City and I think it is because they are quite a small company where most people have worked for 20 years plus so there is a community feel.

I really enjoy my job and was worried about the impact of having children. At the moment, I am working full-time, but will be having more maternity leave in October, all being well. It's too early to say what long-term impact having children will have on my career. I don't get invited to after-work stuff much, but that might be because I normally leg it at 17:30 to get home and see ds...

I don't think there is ever a right time TTC, but I do think if you wait for it, you will probably never reach it!

I haven't posted much before but I have been hovering around the TTC threads for a few months now wondering much the same as you Gangle! I am a City lawyer in a large corporate firm and also 5.5 PQE.

Absolutely agree that there is never a good time. However, I started my present job in early 2006 and you have to have been employed for 2 years by your EWC (estimated week of childbirth) to get the full maternity benefits. I am 31, but waiting another few months yet before really TTC (and not just playing Russian roulette with contraception!) Check out what benefits you are entitled to and when you reach to full maternity benefit, if you have only been there 10 months. Not very romantic, but it may help you cream off the most money.

i agree with Pollyanna and the others absolutely. It does depend on what your DP does. Mine works in finance and is overseas all the time with very odd hours, which is another reason why we hesitated, even though we are sure we want to TTC. He works away and disappears at short notice (e/g. note stuck to the fridge "Gone to Stockholm, back Friday") which is very tricky if you need practical back-up and support for a baby. Given the very long and highly unpredictable hours I work, we have talked and if he doesn't compromise his career too, then mine cannot continue at all. I have no family within hundreds of miles to help.

I have never met any City female lawyer who has been made up to partner after having kids. The nearest are two magic circle partners who got pregnant as soon as they were in the paddock and the firm would have been mental not to make them up because they'd be slapped with a cast iron claim for discrimination. They both had partners with flexable jobs and nannies. I know you said you didn't want to be a partner, but having a child probably will be a barrier to career progression (which is not a reason not to do it - I am really not being negative I promise, only realistic!)

The female lawyers who seem most fulfilled to me are the ones with a good work life balance - i.e. those who have gone in-house/become PSL's - and moved into an alternative role, where they can balance motherhood with a good job more easily and it offers flexibility which, let's face it, is in short supply with important PLC clients bellowing for everything to be done yesterday. In those jobs you are not ruled by the constant pressure to bill more and more hours and at the mercy of the unrealistic whims of several clients - they are the killers. It's not that you can't do full time City hours/travel and have kids, but the few people I know who try it are miserable and exhausted coping with everything. Even that Nicola Horlick person (is she known as Superwoman?) said in some article I read that she believed that you couldn't combine motherhood with being a City lawyer. In house is probably better than private practice because are employed by your client.

Hope I haven't offended anyone, as it's a case of horses for courses the way I see it, but there are few less forgiving careers around.

The other thing that occurred to me is that if you are younger when you have children, then they would hopefully be a bit easier to manage by the time that you get to a stage where you might be looking at serious career advancement. Pro's and con's...

Woodmouse makes a good point about benefits. A short period of time can make a massive difference in terms of what you are entitled to at some places so it is worth looking into. My Firm, family friendly as they are, offers bare min stat benefits so I had nothing really to wait for though my lost pregnancy was dangerously close to the time limit to get the 6 weeks at 90%!

Have checked and am entitled to enhanced benefits - you just need 26 weeks service. Mat benefits seem to be scaled, eg 1-8 weeks at 100%, 9-12 weeks at 90%, 12-16 weeks at 60% etc. Is that normal? No idea what to expect when it comes to mat benefits.

Woodmouse, sounds like we're in similar positions. DH has has very demanding career and isn't home much and no family anywhere near me. Like you, we're not actively trying but not being careful so it could happen at anytime. It will be a shock if it does as still not convinced now is the right time as still so much I want to do. I've convinced myself that I would be able (and would want) to go back full time after 6 months or so mat leave and that it won't affect my job. I know that may not be the case but it's the only way I feel ok about getting pregnant!

Sorry, changed my nickname! Gangle is also know as Armpitwarmers!

sorry, been away from the thread for a day or two. Armpitwarmers, it sounds like we're in v similar positions! Sympathise with regularly absent DH - will probably play havoc with TTC if I end up on the chart spotters/temping thread!

Mat benefits are usually staggered - yours sounds normal enough. Enhanced scheme at my place is 8 wks at 100%, 10 wks at 50%, 8 wks at Statutory and after up to 52 wks total = nowt. It's average for the legal City.

I'm not enjoying my job at the moment, so a year off work playing mummy, with the option to go back is looking v attractive IYKWIM. Working full time, mad hours and wk/e's with no dependable DH support for the baby is terrifying. But friends with the "mummy" jobs feel sidelined and bored, so like you, I try to convince myself I'd go back and nothing will change at work or I'd never take the plunge.

Woodmouse, been thinking further about it and also spoken to a few friends and am definitely now going to TTC, infact I could already be, waiting to find out. A lot of very single friends I expected to be cautious said just go for it, there will never be a good time, plus I am getting more and more broody which I never thought would happen. I suppose you get into a position where you simply want a baby and everything else will have to fall into place around it. You do also get to a point in your career when you think, what next, and you want a change. Have you come to any conclusions?