FAO - ShouldknowbyFriday

[evansg01]

Hiya

Sorry I have not replied sooner ut work has been a bit hectic.

I'm doing the long superovualtion protocol. This cycle I start Norethesterone on day 19 for 7 days. On day 21 I start the puffer, buselin (spelling!) for 3 weeks. 3 days after stopping Noreth. I get my period and for approx 8-12 days from my period starting I'll be taking the FSH injections. I'm scanned on day 8 of the injections to see how the follicles are doing. You can't ovulate until they give you an injection of HCG. The puffer makes you stop producing your own LH surge.
I did a couple of microbiology degress but my career has been in Pharmaceutical companies working on various stages of clinical trials on new drugs.
Good to hear your SIL got pregnant at 43. We have no children and can't get hoping that it will happen naturally so have gone for a more aggressive approach. I can't quite believe your husband does not know what you are up to.

A couple of questions for you:

• has you clinic given you a limit on how many eggs you need to produce. Will they cancel if you produce more than 4. Are they happy for you to do timed intercourse
• in one of your earlier posting you mentioned a friend got pregnant through a dono egg, do you know which clinic they used? Thanks G

Thank you evans for the info, now I understand what you mean about 10 follicles, etc as you will either undergo IUI or IVF depending on result of injectibles. When you say you start the super ovulation on 12 Aug and injectibles on 30th, what does that mean? I was told the injectibles start between day 2-5 of cycle so maybe you are talking about the hormone treatment assoc with IVF? I did have my FSH levels checked in January and it was 7.2 which the dr was pleased with. My follicles were counted and there were 2 on each but I don't know if they were the resting follicles. 2 actually sounds dire! I did get preg on first clomid cycle but miscarried on day 42 while I did respond well to clomid the subsequent 3 cycles were unsuccessful. It is interesting that you say that your next cycle started 3 days after the last tablet as that is what the clinic has advised me. If that is the case with me, my fertile time will fall aroudn the time when DH is away so will wait until Oct. Did the clinic advise you that the injectibles can bring on an earlier ovulation I wonder. Re: doctors, I am not one of those that just takes their word on whatever they say, I have had a lot of experience with them also in a work situ and I know that alot of them are just 'practising' ie, still learning and gaining knowledge and that it is important to make your own decision on their diagnosis/prognosis. Can I ask you which field you research?
My sil got preg naturally after 4mths ttc at age 43 so it can be done. She didn't have any scans etc as I think she was actually dreading having another as her dd was 4yo and easier so I think she was secretly hoping that the over 40 theory would apply to her. Not the case so age 43 is not impossible.

The very best of luck and do keep posting with your progress! I think we are now moving over to the new thread.

Yes Bubbly that is weird. Do you remember your high reading level by any chance. They told me that they wanted to see 200-250 and so when they said 2521 I knew that was high. Well its out of my hands now so just have to wait. I wonder if they forgot to put a decimal point in like the last time????

yikes that is high

no sorry i cant remember the level

ooeer possible multiple pregnancy for you

Will Af has arrived today. I'm not at home but SKBF could you let me know which clinic you have been attending. I know it is written somewhere but don't have time to scroll. Thanks

im sorry for you that af has arrived evans, even from your post you sound gutted, im so sorry
xx

Evans, I go to the ACU at University College Hospital. It is located at the New Wing at the Eastman Dental Hospital on Grays Inn Road, WC1 I think or WC2. While your af is a total bore, as you know you are not preg, this is the start of a new cycle and new hope. The woman I sat next to in the waiting room who had the 3 year old daughter who was conceived as a result of ICSI at the ACU, she looked about 45. She said that after having her daughter, she attended a clinic in Cambridge and hated it feeling she was on a production line so changed to ACU. Don't give up hope, but I do understand how low you feel. I was there in March and now look at me. Anything is possible.

Oh, forgot to add, my ob advised me to start the baby asprin from today which I have done.

Bubbly - you'll be pleased to hear I have changed my mind about India. I've decided that I want to take 3 weeks of work and have 2 weeks off on the 2ww so that rules out a trip to India.

My big bug bear is that in the UK you can't return all embryos created, so I've decided to do the full Monty and go to a clinic that does ICSI, hatching and anuploidy screening. This will cost a fortune but if I was lucky enough to produce 5 embryos at least they could tell which ones are OK, if all 5 are bad then I know my time is up trying to have my own baby and the donor egg option is the only hope.

SKBF - you are an amazing women. I don't know if I could go through all this without my DH giving me his support. I'm keeping everything crossed that you see a heartbeat or two and you can give DH the good news.

I get confused with the acronyms for the ACU, they are down on the HFEA website as the UCH. I've always had their details and today I've made an appointment to see a consultant on the 11th of October. I don't get to see my consultant until the 25th October!!! The other clinic I would go to is the ARGC(?) but they have a 8 -12 week waiting list for an appointment. They appear to do a lot of work on failed implantation which I think is also a problem.

While we are waiting for an appointment we will still do timed sex. I have always had a regular cycle and have the strong LH surges on OPK's. I also have good cm and on this cycle used Pre-seed that I thought was very good. DH does have anti-sperm antibodies and have loads of areas to improve his health. Unfortunately he works away during the week so my influence on him is limited!!!

So feeling positive and an action plan is being formulated, but I have only 4 months to my 44th birthday - a fertility milestone :-9(

Good morning Evans, on my way to the office so in a hurry and want to type loads but no time so will do later but what I want to say is: when I had my consultation at the acu last december and I then had to wait for the next cycle (jan) for all the tests, the clomid was then started in the feb. I mentally geared myself to being preg by DECEMBER 2006 and not within 2-3mths. Of course I wanted to be but I realised that this is generally not an overnight thing. I know that age is a concern for you as it is for me but I felt I had to be realistic. The acu tel no is 0207 837 2905. When I told my ob (one of top in london) last Nov that in April 06 it will be 2 years of trying, he said 'Paul Serhal' which is the name of the Director Consultant and on that basis I went to the acu. Glad you are feeling stronger, you need to be for this rollercoaster ride. Will type more later after 7pm. Be positive!!!!!!!!!!! New start!!!!!!!!!

Hi Evans, I was so tired last night I couldn't climb the stairs to get to my study and fell asleep on the sofa instead. Today at 4pm while at home, I just lay down and shut my eyes and before I knew it it was 5.15pm! Find it reassuring though that I am experiencing this as it makes me think I still have a strong pregnancy and that my beta hcg levels are going up.

Right, back to you. Hope you are feeling less low and more positive. The ACU is the private part of UCH. Children crying, back later.

Now back. So the Assisted Conception Unit is the private part of the University College Hospital in Gower Street, London. I posted the tel number in a previous post. Which consultant are you seeing on the 11th October? Taking about pre-seed, when I had a scan to see the follcles growing I asked her about KY and she told me not to use anything. She said that if I needed to to use cool boiled water. It may be that the eve prim oil helps with secretions as well as I managed not to use it. I have children and am 42 now so getting a bit dry these days! There is a book by Zita West called 'Fertility and Conception' which I bought when DH away in Sept and read the bits that interested me and you may like to read it as well. Has your book by Toni Weschler turned up yet and the book by Imogen Edwards Jones? She writes about the ARG but it was the ACU that my cons recommended. I didn't see Paul Serhal for my consultation but saw his colleague who was very patient, kind and understanding and when I questioned everything he said, he explained everything to me patiently. Very nice man. I have since seen Paul Serhal at different scans and really feel that I have had very very good care indeed from all the doctors. I hope that you feel comforted when you go there. I am going on the 6th Oct so we won't bump into each other!!!

SKBF - I was getting worried about you, pleased to hear it was excessive tiredness that kept your from the computer. As you say it is a good sign. On the 11th October I have an appointment with Mr Massimo Ranieri. I hoping they will do more tests than Bristol and give me an accurate estimate of my chances of success. I keep thinking I should save my money and potential disappointment and go straight to donor eggs. The success rate at the UCH is higher using donor eggs than own eggs and is around 50%.
The Pre-seed I used is especially formulated for fertility as it is the same pH as sperm all other lubricants are a no-no. I read the Stork Club, it is such a quick read and I may give it to DH to read. I've also been skimming the Zita West Book on Conception. The Toni W book is beeing updated and I'll get it in a couple of weeks.
I'm defintely keeping posistive and DH and I will still keep doing the BD while we are waiting for all the clinic assessments. Tomorrow I'm getting a bllod sample taken and I'm hoping my FSH has not gone up, last reading was 9.9.

Thank you for your concern. I feel dead on my feet and can't even have caffeine to recharge my batteries!

I saw Mr Ranieri at the beginning of this cycle when I had to go for the fsh testing on day 2 and first of Menopur on day 3. My fsh result was 7.2 in January this year but went up to 10.2 on this cycle so my level is still higher than yours. While they like the level to be lower than 10, as I was 0.2 over, they still let me go ahead and thank goodness. If your fsh is lower than mine, why not go for the Menopur and IUI? Anyway, he will discuss all the options with you and I am sure you will feel in very good hands. When I used to leave after having my follicles measured, the female scanning doctors would always warmly wish me good luck and the last time I saw the older female doctor, she wished me good luck and said that she hoped the next scan she did for me would be a pregnancy scan. They really are lovely.

Regarding the clinic where my friend went and received donor eggs, the arrangement was that her DH would provide sperm to the donor as her DH had low or no sperm count in exchange for eggs. So I am not sure what they paid and of course would have paid for the treatment, but didn't pay the donor for her eggs and the donor didn't pay for the sperm. Also, neither party would know if the other one was successful in having a child or children. I don't know what sort of arrangement the ACU has for donor eggs.

Re: lubricants, I got preg very easily with my first two and used KY on both occasions so it doesn't always interfere with conception.
Are you still off of the caffeine and alcohol?

SKBF - I'm looking forward to hearing what ACU have to say, I know they are going to have better advice than Bristol. If I was 42 I give superovulation/IUI another couple of goes. But I'm 4 months away from my 44th birthday which is big fertility milestone. I want the clinic to give me advice on whether to go straight to egg donor or give myself one more go. I think ACU does an egg sharing scheme. I'm off to Scotland for a long weekend so will catch up with you on Tuesday.

Hope you had a good weekend in Scotland. It's freezing in London this weekend!

SKBF - I'm back after a rather hectic trip home. I think you are having your scan tomorrow, if that is right good luck and I hope everything goes well.

Well, had scan this morning and then have been in a state of shock all day but happy. There are 3 sacs so triplets but so far one heart beat. The scanning dr called a snr dr for a second opinion who came in, looked, and said 'well, its not good, it's triplets' and told me that they want to see single pregnancies not multiple. I asked how I could reduce and he said through a surgeon who can inject the potassium chloride but that runs the risk of a miscarriage to the one we want to keep. So he was all doom and gloom and I have booked another scan for next Thursday. Sent a text to my ob telling him what this dr said (he knows him) , and he called me as I was driving home and said that the other 2 might not develop a heartbeat and if one of them does and there are then twins would I go ahead with that, etc. He said in the event that there are 3 heartbeats, he would refer me to Proff Nicolaides at the Fetal Med Ctr who can do the procedure but he felt that if I only have twins that I should go ahead with the two rather than reduce the pregnancy to a singleton. He said that he would take good care of me and prescribe cyclogest to 34 weeks to carry twins. Finished conver feeling much more optimistic and will arrange to see him one week after my scan of next Thursday. Then his wife called me (also in reproductive medicine) and said that she knows this dr and he is always serious and grave and paints a bad picture but the likelihood is that maybe one of the two will develop the heartbeat but not both of them. SO more reassurance and I will know next Thursday. So a roller coaster ride of a day, want to laugh out loud at yet a new experience, and feel that I am in good hands with my obstetrician. Will keep you posted. Feeling very tired today and out of breath. Wish I only had twins and that you had the other one that is potentially there.

Hope you had a good weekend Evans and I am really looking forward to hearing about your appt on the 11th.

SKBF - oh my goodness you have had an amazing day. From my research no women over 42 has ever had tripets because egg quality is so poor. With older women who start with triplets/quads they tend to naturally reduce to a max of twins. I think mother nature will take control and hopefully you will not have to face the prospect choosing to reduce the pregnancy. Also women who have two heartbeats and reduce to one have a more successful outcome, the second heartbeat helps keeping the pregnancy, they think by the production of higher hormone levels and reducing the risk of miscarriage. So I think you have an excellent chance of having a baby with this pregnancy.
I'm feeling quite positive - DH and I have had good discussions regarding using donor eggs. Just need the clinic to find out if I would have any other problems maintaining a pregnancy.

Hi Evans, that's interesting that you say that no woman over 42 has had triplets. I am going to verify that fact with my obstetrician. Last night I was so very tired but my mind was whirling with the day's experience. I woke up at 5.30am to go to the loo this morning and couldn't get back to sleep so got up and did some paperwork. At 7.30am I woke up my 2 children for nursery (yes they are that young) and as I was dressing them and starting to feel nauseous wondered how I was going to survive this pregnancy with the late nights, early starts, 2 small children, etc and felt slightly overwhelmed. Once they had gone, had an hour's sleep after which I felt much better. The nausea has really kicked in so instead of wondering if I have a viable pregnancy, I am now just feeling nauseous and weak which is a much better option.
The dr at the clinic yesterday was so negative that I had accepted that this pregnancy wasn't going to go anywhere so I asked him if I could take the Menopur again or would they give me soemthing different next time. That's how I was feeling, I had mentally written off my current pregnancy and was psyching (sp?) myself up for the next lot of injectibles! I agree with you that there is a high chance of at least one baby from this pregancy and I feel I am in good hands with my obstetrician. I still haven't told DH and will do after the next scan.
I don't understand what you mean about going from two to one and that the second hearbeat helps maintain the pregnancy. When they reduce the pregnancy they inject potassium chloride into the fetus which kills it. I imagine that if the twins are identical then that is not an option as the chemical would pass to the other twin? I don't know. The fetus then stops growing and comes out in labour as a small fetus. If however the two that I have don't develop a heartbeat, they will just get absorbed by the body. Gosh, this is facinating stuff.

I am really excited about your appointment next Wednesday, I am going on Thursday so we still won't bump into each other! I am so pleased you are feeling positive and am keeping my fingers crossed for you.

SKBF - the two heartbeat comment was about lots of women start with twins but one 'disappears' usually by 12 weeks, without any intervention. Lots of women have a phantom twin and the fetus also gets absorbed. Because the miscarriage rate is around 50% for women between ages 40-44, they see lower miscarriage rates in women who started off with two fetuses, even though it naturally reduces to one fetus. Hope that makes sense!
I'm sure when you have your next scan you will know for sure how many fetuses you are carrying. It is a very long waiting game. I'll be so interested to hear your DH's reaction after your next scan.

skbf,

thats all i can say right now...im happy for you and absolutely shocked for you too!!! i cant believe you havent told dh yet...id have to tell mine if it was me, but then i could never keep my mouth shut!

good luck to you and good luck evans

...going to make eggy bread now cos im starving...still shocked ..three!! wow!

skbf good luck with the scan tomorrow, i hope all goes well,

Thank you bubbly, my appt is at 11.30am so we shall see what they find tomorrow. I am feeling nauseous for most of the time and also very tired which I didn't feel so early on in my 2 successful pregnancies. Really hoping there is either one or two heartbeats and not three. Oh well, just have wait now.

Wondering how Evans got on today at the clinic. Hope she had good news.

Evans...?

SKBF - I had a good meeting with Mr Massimo Ranieri, it was much better than the consultant in Bristol. He confirmed that I took the right option of doing IUI as I had only a couple of good sized follicles. He thinks less interventions is better but did also confirm that my chemical pregnancy was likely due to poor egg quality. At the clinic they don't recommend IVF for women over 43 as the chances of success are too low. The best appraoch for me to get pregnant is to use donor eggs. Before making a final decision he is going to do an ovarian stress test, probably in November and count the potential number of follicles I have. If 8 or more then we could do IVF with embryo screening. They managed to get a 45 year old women pregnant with her own eggs but she was able to produce 10. He was not impressed with my superovulation results and thinks that taking the Buserelin for such a long time does not help in women my age, so SKBF you had the shorter and better treatment. If I have between 4 -7 follicles I may give superovulation and IUI one more go. I doubt I will have more than 8 follicles so donor egg is the way to go. Unfortunatly there are no 'eggs' available in the UK, donations are few and far between and now that anonymity has been removed it has got worse. The clinic recomends going to Spain or America!

SKBF - I hope your scan has gone well

Well, I think the advice you get from the ACU is the best you can get and that you are in very good hands. I would be interested to hear about your results on the tests in November and hopefully you can get preg using youw own eggs. Would you consider acupuncture or reflexology or both which is what I did? I was told yesterday by another patient that they are doing a study on acupuncture with fertility treatment so may be something you would consider. I really want you to have the best chance possible. Why was the law changed to end anonymity? What a shame this affects sooo many couples trying for a family. My friend who I saw on Saturday said that she received the donor eggs in the Jan or Feb I think and the law changed 2-3 months after that so she feels she squeezed in her procedure just in time. How awful to have that added pressure when there is enough pressure anyway. Fingers crossed for you that the ACU is the answer.

Re: me, went for scan yesterday and 3 heartbeats. The dr said they all look strong, one at 6.3mm and the 2 others 6mm and she said I must be very fertile. My reaction to that was 'but I only had 2 follicles on day 3 when you said you like to see 4 or 5 so it must be all down to the drugs I have had.' Anyway, I asked her the chances for miscarrying one or two and she said that it is possible but unlikely as they all look strong. I knew when I went in that this is not going to be easy and I suspected taht there could be 3 as I feel very strong preg symptoms, much stronger than I had with my 2 single pregs. So am seeing ob next week and he will monitor me and refer me for a reduction and either we will reduce to one or two depending on whats best. Didn't cry nor did my stomach churn, just know I have to be strong and level headed about the next few weeks ahead. And rather than feel that I am unlucky I am trying to think that I have the choice of 3 and it could be that one or two have chromosomal abnormalities in which case I have the back up of the other one or two. Anyway, feel very tired, out of breath and am aware of the demands of three on my body until the decisions are made but just have to get on with it. If I were to miscarry the lot, I am not sure I would do this again. Just a thought.

Told DH last night that I am late and took test which was pos. He was very surprised but took it in his stride. Feels he is too old for more children and that they will be ashamed of him as he is an older father (now in his 50's) which upset me. Didn't mention the alternative which would be a termination, does accept it and I didn't mention the number (of course). I just have to be strong for what lies ahead.