5 failed rounds of ICSI - would we be crazy to try natural insemination IUI without drugs??

[Luckystarfour]

Hi there - out next steps do not seem typical and because of this we are really struggling to know what to do!

In a nutshell we hae had 5 failed rounds of ICSI - the last a split round using donor sperm and my hubbies sperm on the same cycle. That round we were lucky enough to time having the new embryoscopy. We had always been led to believe that my hubby's sperm was the issue, he went through TESSA for sperm collection since his sperm had less than 1% normal morphology.

In this last round however it turned out all of the donor sperm fertilised eggs were genetically affected,indicating that my eggs had to be a factor on that round.

We are therefore left in the position of thinking is this enough evidence to indicate my eggs are faulty? The last round I was stimulated more and it was my fifth round in two years - I had 19 eggs collected - were my eggs affected, we will never know!

We now need to make the choice about whether to have a double donor round next - egg and sperm.

On the one hand we feel we have never had a natural chance of me having good quality sperm in the right place at the right time without the influences of drugs. This makes us question whether IUI but without drugs (wed just use an HCG trigger shot) is worth a shot. It feels alot to give up on my natural chance to be a biological mother based on one round and unconfirmed information.

Are we crazy though to consider IUI (without drugs) at this stage? The chances of success is 33% over three rounds.

Or should we be going ahead with the double donor round now. We are 35 and so we feel we have time and the IUI without drugs will only delay us for 3 months.

Any thoughts?

I'm no expert since I haven't gone through that but it seems like you should give it try. 33% seems like fairly good odds and its less invasive. Is cost a factor? If it doesn't work you can go to plan B after. Good luck!

Thanks argylesocks its good to hear an objective opinion. 33% isn't so bad it it! The rounds cost £1000 a time so much cheaper than ICSI at least!

I second argylesocks. I have heard of stranger things working.

At 35 I would suggest you are v young actually to go double donor though I do appreciate how long you have prob already been waiting.

You can tell me to bog off and mind my own business of course but have you given any thought to taking some really good targeted fertility supplements? CoQ10, L-arginine and L-carnitine can be really good for duff sperm and CoQ10 and a range of other things also good for you. I have also seen chinese herbs from a reputable properly trained herbalist, (not a high street shop) work wonders on women in their mid-late 30's who have been told that donor eggs are the only option.

All the very very best to you x

33% sounds enormously high for natural IUI where there are sperm issues. Can you challenge the clinic on that before handing over your money?

We were given an 8% chance per cycle (which is I think fairly standard if you look at the success rates for various clinic) with a normal (but at the low end of normal) SA.

Isn't the 33% for the average couple (though actually from my memory of the fertility process, that seems rather optimistic for IUI)? From what you have said, there are problems on both sides, so I cannot see how your chances are going to be 33%, given that the chances of IVF/ICSI success with no known fertility factors are usually higher than IUI.

You really need to speak to your clinic about why the IVF/ICSI hasn't worked and get as much information as you can so that you can make an informed opinion going forward.

HFEA statistics, success rates for IUI with donor sperm:

15.8% (237/1497) for women aged under 35
11.0% (154/1394) for women aged between 35-39

Hi all thanks so much for taking the time to reply.

Sorry if I've confused any of you, yes this is with donor sperm not my hubby's sperm.

fertility fairy we have had an awful lot of inestigation in our rounds array CGH where 8 out of 10 of our embryps were gentially affected. My hubby has also undergone surgical sleep recovery TESA after the third failed round - taking the earliest form if sperm so hence the least damage and this has also failed. But of course we he never tried my hubby's sperm with donor eggs. Can I ask FF are you an IVF patient or someone who works in the industry? Have you seem our results very often,

worldgonecrazy we really have had an awful lot information about my hubby's sperm and due to this hsce pretty much ruled out using it. We don't However have much info to go on re my eggs - this has only shown up because our last round used 50:50 my hubby's/donor fertilisation a and the donors were all affected! The stats you give per cycle amount to the 33% over three rounds assuming no egg factors and donor sperm. This is the stat for natural fertility at my age too. 1 in 3 eggs are mature for 35 year olds.

Any more thoughts keep then coming :-)

Hi luckystarfour I guess I'm a bit "anti" IUI because I had 3 rounds of it which were a complete waste of NHS money, but because it is the cheaper option, my Health Authority won't pay for an IVF round until there have been 3 unsuccesful rounds of IUI.

And yes, the stats for IUI are pretty much the stats for natural fertility. If there are specific problems with your eggs then you need to think about what can be done to get around those problems. (funnily enough, the answer to my problems was ICSI, nothing wrong with either egg or sperm, my eggs just didn't like letting the swimmers in).

Anyway, I really hope you find an answer and get your own little miracle soon. (My DD from 3rd round of IVF is now an energetic 3 year old).

Sorry for the delay! Yes workdgonecrazy it does seem like we are going backwards doing IUI but I think given our findings re sperm it seems a good thing to try to put 100% good quality sperm in the right place at the right time. (Without stimulation drugs!)

Any one else out there had success with IUI without drugs?

lucky my friend had 3 failed cycles of ivf, then tried 1 iui and got pg!!! Oh and her friend had 10 failed cycles of iui must be made of money and then got pg with first iui!!!

I know statistically, iui has lower success rates but its worth a go, I reckon. I'm just about to start iui myself actually, although not had any ivf yet. Best of luck to you

blind kitty thats really reassuring to hear! It seems strange thinking of IUI after having ICSI as its usually the other way round, but I genuinely feel I have missed my chance of natural conception and therefore I have always been stimulated and had meds involved which could well affect my egg quality. Feeling more confident each day that this is the right decision before trying the double donor round.

Keep those thoughts coming! Good to not be alone in this decision making and to hear other peoples experiences.

That's what my friend said! Then she got pg naturally a year later! I'll let you know how the iui goes!

Good luck blinkitty I really hope you gain success without the need for IVF :-)