Will I Ovulate if AF hasn't made an appearance?

[justhayley]

Hi Ladies,

Bit of background:
I'm 29 TTC DC2. DS1 is 13 months and breastfed. DP is in the Military & only home at weekends - great when TTC
AF returned when DS was 4 months however my cycle is pretty irregular 53, 41, 47, 34 since October. Although pre DS I'd only get 3/4 periods a year max and always had. I fell pregnant in July 2011 & had only had 2 periods that year. He wasn't planned and I was extremely lucky

My AF is currently 10 days "late" however with my random cycle it's impossible to tell, so I'm not POAS till next week while trying to remain calm & unexcited

According to an app I'm using I'm due to ovulate on Monday, however assuming im not pregnant, if I havnt had AF yet (last one 25th April-2nd May) will I still be due to ovulate on Monday?

CM is currently wet (although iv only just started reading about this so not 100% on my monthly changes).

Apart from charting BBT & CM is there a way to track ovulation with irregular periods, or can ovulation happen without AF?

Since TTC im actually embarrassed about the lack of knowledge I have on my reproductive system. I really think this needs to be taught in schools. My sex Ed consisted of putting a condom on a banana & getting shown pics of STIs!

Please help.
Thank you xxx

Irregular periods are often caused by hormonal imbalances; in this regard a condition called polycystic ovaries is a common culprit. As this is also a long standing problem too (I note you only had 3/4 periods a year max) I would think that something like PCO is the cause of your lack of ovulation. PCO is actually very common and around 1 in every 5 women has PCO. Another possible cause could be problems with the thyroid gland; again this should be looked for via blood tests.

I would ask the GP to have blood tests done (you need in particular a day 2 test to compare your LH level against that of your FSH level) and see what that result is. You need a diagnosis first and foremost.

Using temp charts, cm and tracking apps for long standing irregular cycles is a wasted effort because such signs can be misleading and the app can be wrong.

I would refrain from using any pg test at all in your case.

It is also quite possible to have periods without ovulating. A "normal" cycle is a cycle length of between 21 and 35 days or with less than 4 days of variation from month to month.

Ovulation is not an exact science and it can occur earlier, later or not at all in any given cycle.

Given as well your long standing irregular periods I would seek medical advice sooner rather than later.

Thank you.
Iv been to the doctors in the past regarding my irregular periods and have been told various things. When I was younger I was told It was most likely to be because I was dancing 4/5 times a week and irregular periods are quite common in ballet dancers. I was also told I need to put on a few pounds.
This is def not an issue anymore.

When I had an early scan with DS1 cysts were detected on my ovaries but I was told no more than normal & they didn't detect PCOS. Iv also had my thyroids tested and everything is fine there.

I think however it may be a good idea to go back again and start pushing for some investigation and answers especially now as I would like to conceive. Although they may not look into it while I'm breastfeeding?

Hey justhayley . I can't help much with regard to ovulation, but thought I'd have my two-pennies' worth on periods! I'm also extremely irregular. I can't tell you exactly what's going on atm as (due to TOP, infections, D&C, and MC) I haven't had a period since early January, but in recent years my cycle has varied to the extent of having three entirely separate bleeds in 5.5 weeks or, at the other end of the scale, not having anything at all for 4-6 months. During the course of everything that's happened over the last few months, I've had my ovaries scanned and they are totally clear, so PCOS isn't a problem for me (and obviously I am fertile as well).

I mentioned this to my GP and I said that my periods have always been irregular since I started, which was late due to having severe anorexia in my teens. She asked about my weight at my lowest (4st12) and when I started my periods (7st7 I think) and now/recently (8st, and have been thereabouts for years) - so she doesn't think my weight can be the issue either, especially as I am fertile. I exercise a lot, but again she thinks that shouldn't be making me irregular. I've been told that if I don't have a period in the two months after I saw her (scuse the clumsy phrasing, hope you know what I mean!) OR if they're still irregular, to go back and they'll do blood tests to check my hormone levels and see what's going on. I'm particularly keen for them to do this as I'm trying for a baby. Mebbies you should ask for similar?

Incidentally, I have been over the anorexia for about six years now, so it's nothing to do with that either.

Thanks Raz. Youv been through the mill hey :( decided I'm going to book an appointment with my GP and see what's going on.

Well let us know, eh? Good luck - I'm sure it'll all work out! x

justhayley I would disagree with what attila says about charting being useless if you have irregular cycles. My cycles have always been irregular - varying between about 24 and 50 days - and I used careful charting of temps and observation of cervical fluid as contraception (successfully) for many years. Because I charted for so long I also know that I always ovulate, it's just that my ovulation is pretty "flexible", it moves around a lot. I am also (perhaps surprisingly) very fertile, and have conceived three times in the first month of trying (two early losses, one successful pregnancy). My mother had a very similar profile of irregular cycles and high fertility. So at least for some women with irregular cycles charting can still be useful and teach you a lot. You do need to learn how to do it properly though, for which I would recommend the book 'Taking Charge of Your Fertility' which explains how the method is still useful for many women even with very irregular cycles.

In the meantime, if you are seeing wet cervical fluid at the moment and you are ttc you should assume you are fertile and behave accordingly! The main thing to grasp is that when your period arrives is 'set' by the previous ovulation, not the other way around. So if you have one cycle of 24 days and another of 44 days the interval between ovulation and the next period will be about the same in each case. This is called the 'luteal phase' and it varies between women (usually from about 10-17 days) but most women will find that their own 'luteal phase' is of quite a consistent length. So for instance if yours is 14 days than in the 24 day cycle you probably ovulated on day 10 and in the 44 day cycle on day 30. As you can see, what doesn't work if you have irregular cycles like this is 'assuming' you are fertile 10-14 days after a period, as that isn't necessarily true at all.

Short answer: forget about how long your cycle is 'meant' to be and just make sure that you assume you are fertile whenever you see wet or egg-white cervical fluid, whenever that happens to be.

Kalidasa - I know that wasn't aimed at me, but thought I'd say thanks anyway as it's very useful! May well look up that book. My problem is that my cervical mucus doesn't seem to change very much though... :-/ ...but I didn't start charting it until after a TOP, after which I had infection....D&C....infection....MC - so could that have affected it?

I have had irregular periods since onset of menses and the cause of this in my case was PCOS. Charting in my case would have shown a chart impossible to interpret with any degree of accuracy; what was far more accurate were the blood tests.

Consistent and/or long term irregularity of cycles means you are less likely to be ovulating regularly, if at all. These problems are often caused by hormonal imbalances. Charting as a method is not completely infallible and "signs" can be misleading.

Yes I would definitely agree that charting is only a starting point. If you have consistently incomprehensible charts (e.g. no clear evidence of a temp shift) then that in itself would be a good sign that something is going on, and that you may not be ovulating. I just wanted to point out that it is possible to be having long and irregular cycles and actually to be ovulating and so on normally, just at irregular intervals. In which case charting would make it clear that you are ovulating and help you to time intercourse.

RaRaZ some women don't see very clear changes in cf (cervical fluid). Some common reasons for that are age (you tend to produce less fertile cf as you get older anyway) and having come off hormonal contraception fairly recently (e.g. within the last year). I'm not sure about the impact of infections, a D&C and a mc (which sounds like an awful sequence, I'm sorry!) but I guess it wouldn't be surprising if things weren't in perfect working order at the moment.

If cf is not a good sign for you, it makes sense to focus on temperature and cervical texture and position instead.

Age and contraception shouldn't be an issue for me - I'm 24 and haven't been on hormonal contraception in at least a year and a half, mebbies longer. Also been pregnant three times since then, so must be ovulating. I find my cervix difficult...lol - it seems to move around at random :-/

Thanks kalidasa that's really helpful. I got very wet CF during early pregnancy with DS. By "normal" standards AF is 13 days late and my CF is currently very clear and wet, sorry tmi. POAS tomorrow but if I get a bfn which I'm assuming I will, I think I'm currently fertile which is annoying as DP isn't at home till Friday night so we would have missed the boat this month

Hi justhayley yes I think cf in early pregnancy can be very variable. If you've got fertile cf now though I wouldn't assume that Friday night will be too late. I often have wet cf for quite a long time during a long cycle. And it's useful to remember that ovulation only actually occurs shortly after the end of the fertile cf (probably 12-48 hours afterwards). Your body wants to encourage you to have sex just before ovulation so that the sperm is there waiting!

The other thing that I learnt from charting for many years is that although my ovulation was extremely variable it was also extremely cunning. For several of those years I was in an on-off relationship with a man whom I didn't see that often. After I while I started to spot a pattern, so looked back over my (very irregular) charts over many months, and realised that in all that time I had never ovulated when he was away!! I'm not suggesting this is true for most women but in my particular case the irregular cycles actually seemed to be maximising fertility. (Thank goodness FAM works as a contraceptive method because it would really not have been good if I had actually conceived in that relationship!)

RaRaZ you must be very fertile indeed! so in that case I really wouldn't worry about the cf too much. As you observe it more carefully you may start to notice changes you'd missed before. I always found recording the cervix stuff tricky too, but lots of women do find it helpful and to be honest my other signs were so clear that I never worried about it too much.