Five and the Mystery of the Declining Fertility - the BESH engage the services of the Famous Five to track down their baybees and finish with lashings of ginger beer. Topping!

[ArielThePiraticalMermaid]

Morning everyone, just let me wolf down this amazing meal of tinned tongue, hardboiled eggs and ginger beer (don't you find food always tastes so much better outside?) and we'll toddle off on our latest adventure. We'll make sure Anne does the washing up (you'll make a proper little housewife and no doubt the fecund mother of four fine sons one day Anne ) and us boys can have the proper adventures! No, not you George - you're nearly as good as a boy but not quite. Leave the actual procreating to me and Dick. Woof woof! Shut up Timmy!

Norfy sozzles about the BFN. That does sound like an odd period though, How is knickerwatch going?

As you might have guessed, I'm back. It was ok, although I was a complete bag of nerves beforehand. And refused consent for them to shove drugs up my bottom. There is little dignity remaining in this process but bumhole intacto is where I draw my limit. They've given them to me to insert myself but I'm probably going to skip it. I'm in next to no pain, just mild discomfort, so it looks like they would have been entirely unnecessary anyway. I'll see how it goes whenever what they gave me in theatre wears off. I have a headache from lack of food and coffee and that is far worse. No bleeding so far.

The actual EC process was ok. The worst bit was a scan before with no lube. Ouchie. The only bit that really upset me was when they belted my legs into (very wide) stirrups. It brought to mind an awful former nazi eugenics "hospital" we visited once in Austria. I was just about to freak out when the drugs knocked me out.

I did the same thing I have done on the two occasions I had GA in the past - bolted. As I woke up the first words out of my mouth were "can I go now" at which point, within 30 seconds of coming round, I was on my feet, getting dressed (that didn't go so well - I've just discovered my knickers the wrong way round...). Then they said I couldn't until I had had a drink and used the toilet. That was accomplished within a minute, with the nurse and KFZK trying to slow me down. In the end they gave up and he called a cab. They tried to get me to wait to tell me the embryologist was coming. I told them to get her to call me, but she made it just before I bolted. They got the egg they expected, plus one more which might be immature. However, the spaff sample wasn't good - low volume (as usual) and only 13m swimmers. The numbers have been going down and down. They suggested ICSI but we have said no. I need time to get my head around that and couldn't make an on the spot decision. We'll find out tomorrow if the egg has fertilised (I'm not counting on the small one -I'm a bit annoyed they went for it actually. One reason I am doing this au naturel is to avoid ethical agonising over embryo freezing.)

I've read before that a natural pregnancy is unlikely with fewer than 20m swimmers, so it looks like our issue is actually male factor. None of the SAs have been great, but ICSI has never been suggested before. I've suggested KFZK gets some more investigations done. I think he's quite upset that his contribution was not great having seen what I went through.

Right, it must be time for brunch.

Hope you had a lovely brunch euro. You've had one hell of a morning. I have my fingers crossed for you, but in the meantime enjoy your chocolate. It is a shame KFZK had to be upset; bit crap of them not to have looked into it further before now.

I don't blame you for not wanting stuff put up your behind either.

Your point about the ethical considerations of IVF is interesting too, but perhaps a discussion for another time.

Sorry about the BFN norfy old bean.

tipsy sorry stuff is getting you down. Do stick around for the company, I'll have Dick build a campfire and Anne will cook some bacon and eggs, like the good little girl she is.

I have given my evidence. (not at the Bailey, alas or fortunately, I'm not sure). I was in there a long time and I am tired and emotionally drained.

God, Euro what a morning. I'm glad you're ok and yes, I'm not surprised you declined the anal intruding. One must retain some standards. The wide stirrups sound scary :(. Dare I offer you a hug? No? Ok, have this hearty handshake and some ginger beer. Well done, old thing.

And well done TWinks on giving your evidence. That sounds daunting. Have this enormous jug of Merlot nice cup of tea.

Sorry about the BFN, Norf x

Crikey, what a morning for the besherati. Hope you're all recovering ok.

Euro, big fx for your little egg. Can I ask what ICSI is?

I'm off for my first afternoon of training for my new job now - maternity cover so I'm hoping the pregnancy is contagious..

moll ICSI is IVF with an added procedure whereby they select an individual sperm to inject into the egg, rather than just leaving them in a petri dish with some Barry White playing and hope that nature takes its course.

euro. Well done.

I might wish to pm you. If you dont mind. Unless the besh want my wailings all over the board.

I'm freaked out (and hence refusing any more intervention) by the idea of combining a child and my work, butI was holding it together until I was told I needed ICIS. I'm not sure why that freaked me out so much, but I now just can't seem to get my head straight.

You seem entirely more sane than me. Can you tell me how?! I can't even articulate why I'm so scared (now, as opposed to any previous point). Your post actually gave me the cold sweats.

This is not normal.

sinky you are most welcome to PM me.

Sorry if my post freaked you out. TBH, as I was getting ready today I just kept thinking "this isn't how it is supposed to be". I had the same when I did IUI last year. I just don't want to be at this point. If it works, I guess the journey will become unimportant, but right now I just want to make a baby the old fashioned way.

I meant to say, well done on giving evidence, Twinks. I help out training baby barristers each year, by playing a witness giving evidence while they X-examine me. It is obviously a case in which I have no personal investment (just some facts I have to learn) and I still feel my stomach clench when they question me! Give yourself a treat today for being brave.

Sinky I totally get where you're coming from, and Euro with your "This wasn't how it was supposed to be".

I think it's a bit of a grieving process. We can't have what others naturally have. What could be more natural than reproducing? It's made worse if you ishoos about being...erm... fiddled with, as it were. Babies should be made in a moment of pure lurve, in bed, preferably when on holiday when you are all relaxed and suntanned and floaty. And coming to terms with the fact that this probably won't happen is very, very sad.

I was thinking today that I would rather remain as we are than go through it all for another year at least. Draw a line.

Ah Rie. It's horrid that we even have to think those thoughts. Euro is right - this isn't how it's meant to be.

This definitely isn't how it's meant to be, but if we dwell on that too much we will drive ourselves into the pit of despair. Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt.
As a result I am trying my damnedest to be positive this cycle. It's hard, "down" is my default setting.

Well done Euro, keeping everything crossed for you eggs.

I'm off out for a work dinner shortly, so will check in with you all later. Don't go getting into any mischief now will you?

Oops, strikeout fail

Swabs done. It looks like the referral is written, and will be sent as soon as the swab results are in - so the end of next week. So with any luck we'll have a letter from the clinic in 2-3 weeks. I have cried a bit on HOTB and am now settled with a glass of gin. I am trying to resist the urge to gulp it down and pour another one.

And absolutely, this is not how it is supposed to be. It makes me so angry and bitterly jealous of so many people whenever I think about it. I seem to compartmentalise pretty well, though, so 90% of the time I can pretend all is well.

That's exactly what I do draf - compartmentalise! Mostly it works very well. It's when two worlds collide that it doesn't.

Sometimes it takes you unawares - a little girl spinning round and round in a circle in Tesco's and laughing her head off caught at my throat the other day.

Draf I mostly take that approach too.

Rie I know what you mean. I have those moments too. And the ones that just make me angry (like having to make way for a preggo on the tube this morning, when I felt like crap myself).

Well done on surviving The Needle euro and let's hope the egg likes Barry White more than I do, otherwise there will be no funny business in a petri dish. I don't think mrE's score is all that bad, and I am really surprised they suggested ICSI. My diffedness was after an IUI with all of 4mil swimmers (admittedly the worst score SB ever had). And he's only been over 15 once, in 6 IUIs and about 3 SAs, and of course that didn't get me diffed...

Sorry you've been hit by the well of misery that is TTC tips. Feel free to off-load here and stay away and do what you need to. But have some scallopy earrings as besh-love. Totally agree with the shittiness and the feelings of unfairness, despair, rage etc.

Sorry you're miz as well draff! FIngers crossed the clinic gets back to you soon!

And yes, rie I know the feeling of being hit by something small like a child. SB and I spent half the weekend discussing which kids we'd steal, it helps against those sorts of feelings.

Oh and euro the preggo rage is present in me. I also have a bit of the it-should-bloody-well-be-me with the really fat ones.

Two more nights jeff, you're doing great!

Norf spend the next fiver on another hot chocolate instead, with a nice big muffin. It's much more fun that way!!

Sorry you're struggling on the FSH frank. I hope you'll feel better as soon as you've triggered. That's how it worked for me. How long have you been stabbing now? Impressed with the positiveness this cycle. Keep it up. Even if it doesn't make a difference to diffedness, it might make you feel better!

How are things in the bugs household? I hope still okay!

As for me, I am supposed to be studying, but just don't have the energy, I did loads of work today, so I think I can let myself off (mostly). Maybe settle for 40 minutes of it... But I did go for a rainy run last night, so I am proud. Since we're not doing anything I am back on caffeine in copious quantities and loving it

I've been catching up on yesterdays fred, and apparently I am a quiche too (of the european variety).

Impressed with the fertility signing up frank. Will you give us an executive summary like on EC in horses, I love your random knowledge

I did miss a lot of excitement, I might go hunt for some...

Thanks Chaps, still feeling rubbish today as had lunch with preggo friend and then got back to work to have a 15 minute conversation with two other staff, well, I was pretty passive in it to be honest, while they told me how shit having kids was but how they wouldn't change it for the world. FUCK OFF would you. Bellends.

Sorry to hear EC was traumatic Euro, hope your feeling more with it now though. When will they ring to let you know if it's fertilised? Love your description of petri dish IVF. Who could possibly fail to fertilse while the love machine himself is singing in the back ground. Perhaps that's where I'm going wrong, I need the big man to join us :)

Frank that Fertility thing looks good, I might have time to have a watch so will maybe sign up.

Agree with the comments about it being a grieving process, I think that's why I'm struggling at the moment, I didn't want it to be like this, something that was going to dominate my life and everything I do, or be all I think about. I don't want to be that 'infertile' woman that people look at and feel sorry for or that people will feel sorry for MATV because he is married to some shriveled miserable barren cow. :(

So I had my first day of new job training with the lady who is about to drop her sproglet. Awkward moment as I opened my computer for her to show me something and it came right up on the mumsnet conception page as I hadn't previously logged out.

She was very polite and pretended not to have noticed.

My Facebook page is a constant stream of baby photos - gets me every time. I wish I had the willpower to just not log on.

Well done, euro. Sounds like you got through it really well, drawing a veil over the only slightly mental bolting. I really feel the "it wasn't meant to be like this" thing with you tonight, as you can probably tell from the other thread. Any after effects from this morning? How are you feeling tonight?

Euro - hope you're feeling better. Really get the bolting post GA thing. The only time I've been under, I came round screaming and clawing the air mask thingy off my face. Horrible.

Really hope the Barry-White-induced swimmers are doing their thang.

I'm such a fred hog today.

norfy I'm feeling ok. Slightly bloaty but basically like I normally do around ov. Starting to think about the call tomorrow morning to let us know if there has been fertilisation.

You've had the most traumatic day, lovely. Hog away.

I'm back. Dinner was scrummy and I'm stuffed. No alcohol - I'm being good, plus I was driving.

Dildo-cam at 8.30am, what a joy to look forward to

Try to pretend you don't love it, you massive tart.