Coming to terms with using IVF

[eurochick]

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone could share there thoughts on the psychological side of IVF. We should be starting next cycle and whilst my head says it is the right thing to do (age 36, with 16 cycles of perfectly-timed ttc with no hint of a BFP and a diagnosis of unexplained fertility) my heart is still reluctant. I think the "unexplained" diagnosis is not helping me. If I knew that the IVF would get around a specific problem, such as blocked tubes, I think I would feel easier about it, but as it is I'm not sure why it should help. There is no physical reason why egg shouldn't be meeting sperm and implanting now.

My clinic has a counselling service and I might use that, but I also wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts to share on here. Incidentally, my two closest friends have had great success with IVF (one has 3 ICSI babies and the other is currently pregnant following IVF), so I am surrounded by positive outcomes. I am just struggling not to see it as a "failure" when I know that it isn't. I am certain that if I were a bit younger we wouldn't be turning to IVF yet but I feel like at my age, having tried for a good while, we need to just get on with it.

So I guess that is two issues. One is not being convinced that IVF will work for us - why should it when on paper we are both perfectly fertile? The other is seeing turning to IVF as a failure. I'll stop waffling now. Thanks for any thoughts you are able to offer.

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Hi there - this thread is a little old. [[https://www.mumsnet.com/conception/ivf
If you want to find out about IVF, we’ve got more information here]]. MNHQ

Hi Euro,
I have no words of wisdom about ivf but I wanted to wish you all the best with your treatment. I really hope you get success with it.
We are in a similar boat with an 'unexplained infertility' diagnosis and I am struggling with that too (we have conceived but takes us ages and we have mc'd twice, it's now been nearly a year since last conceiving). We are currently on first round IUI and have 3 gos at this before ivf. I am similar in that my heart is not in it, I feel doomed to failure,
I think the counselling you suggested sounds a great plan.

It would be great to hear from others who have had success with assisted techniques after an unexplained diagnosis.

Hi there both, I've felt the exact same way. There are no known issues for either DH or me and I've always been so healthy that this has been a real shock, I never thought I'd end up in this situation. I've gone back and forth, and particularly after we had round 1 last may that didn't work I felt that that 'wasn't the answer then' and there must be another answer somewhere else. Recently after reluctantly decided to go for an FET round, when I phoned the clinic they initially said it might not be able to go ahead and I had 24 hrs of thinking it wasn't available, which made me realize that I might not be delighted about it but I really want the opportunity to try. Anyway, I'm waffling, but here are the things that are helping me come to terms with it:

• 'the natural thing' - ivf was developed by people, using their brains and skills that they were put on the earth to use, and all the materials used originally have come from the ground. My mum and a good friend both said these things to me.
• 'the natural thing' part 2 - ivf still doesn't ensure implantation - it only puts the embryo in the right place at the right time and controls the conditions - from implantation onwards is the same as any pregnancy, and once the baby / babies are born they are still yours
• 'the natural thing' part 3 - if i had cancer, a broken leg, needing a transplant, i wouldn't think twice about having a medical operation
• 'the failure thing' - I'm not broken, old, diseased, withered, or any of those negative terms. I'm healthy, normal and it just takes longer for some people. I play meditation cds every day which repeat these kind of messages again and again, to try to brainwash myself!! Its partially working. One of the mindfulness cd's i use is about handling difficulty - you kind of hold the difficult feelings in your mind and breath into them, accept that they are there and kind of take a step back, and just let them pass by instead of holding on tightly to them.
• 'the what if i just waited thing' - the chances are still that if i wait it will eventually happen. It might happen when I'm 40 +. Which if it does will be great. But I'm 34, and I'd like the chance to have them now as I'm ready for them now, so its a way to speed things up a bit and help nature along.
• 'the i wanted my life to be perfect thing or it says something about me' - well i may not be perfect, but i've got a huge heart. that's my best feature instead and i'm ok with that.
• 'the i wanted my life to be perfect thing' part 2 - nobodies life is - everyone has stuff to deal with and difficult emotions. those people who seem like they have it perfect are just the ones who aren't admitting it
• 'the it says something about my women-ness thing' - i also feel like i should be able to bake a cake, make curtains and all other feminine skills to olympic standard, first time, without any prior instruction. why? because i ought to. . but with all these things maybe its that there's more science to it than innate skill.

hmm, well those are my thoughts of the day. i've said it before in lots of places, but i find the meditation cds so helpful, because its someone's reassuring knowledgeable voice going straight into my ear saying that its all going to be ok and to relax and let the tension go.

Best of luck whatever you decide.

I'm very interested in how people feel once they are pg through ivf, and also once they've had babies through ivf, and any further emotional journeys you go on so please share if this is you.

Carebear you talk a lot of sense! You sound like a very strong, positive woman. I like the sound of the relaxation CDs, can I ask where you got it from?
Wishing you lots of luck too with the recent FET round.

Carebear you speak incredibly wise words!
I feel more positive just reading your post.

All the best for your treatment eurochick!

Thanks for your posts. I agree that Carebear has written a lot of sense. I have long banged the drum about how IVF should be more freely available on the NHS as it is merely righting a physical problem but now it comes to it, I can't quite view it the same way as going to get another part of me treated. There are so many emotions involved.

Yeah its so hard isnt it.

Euro can I ask, with your friends who have had ivf, has it changed how you view them at all? Or changed your relationship with them? Noone close to me has done it.

Jemima I've got quite a few, a mixture of from amazon, internet and the library. If you would like a copy PM me an address to send it to. X

Good Evening Ladies

I had to join in on this thread as it spoke volumes to me. I am an occasional poster and long-term lurker.

I am waiting for my appointment to start IVF - will be in about 2 - 3 months.
So much of what has been said here, I can relate to.

However, I do have a diagnosis - partially blocked and likely unhealthy tubes. Although I know the mechanical reasons for our lack of conception, I still can't help but feel "what if a bit more time could help us", just like yourselves. This is partly because I naturally conceived and miscarried nearly 2 years a go and because my consultant said some women like me do occasionally fall pregnant naturally. It leaves me hoping for a miracle. But my realistic side knows, it's a small chance.

I have also gone throught the emotions of not feeling womanly and like a failiure.

Carebear- your words make a lot of sense and are very helpfull.

I understand all of your concerns and anxities Euro. One day - you will be very glad and proud that you were proactive. Whatever the eventual outcome, we will all know we tried and will have no regrets. Having said said that - the odds are still in our favour, we just need a bit of help.

I don't know if this is any use to anyone, but I read somewhere recently that there is no such thing as unexplained infertility. There will always be a reason for the lack of concetion which is so subtle we can't detect it even with testing. So IVF, is likley to hep, as the subtle problem is likely to be removed with assisted techniques.

Good luck to everyone. xx

Me and DH have been TTC for 14 months without a peep, and I know that we ought to be starting to consider the alternatives or at least find out what's going on. But it is very hard - I don't want to be told we need IVF - it seems inconceivable that we can't make a baby ourselves but it seems likely that we need help. It makes me feel really sad - I don't want interference in what should be the most precious part of our relationship :(

Carebear I just pm'd you, hopefully it worked! Thank you so much you are very kind x

euro - I think it's nigh impossible NOT to feel a failure when contemplating the need for IVF. I mean, this wasn't how any of us envisioned starting our families...

I remember well the first time we turned up to a patient info evening at our clinic and seeing all these forlorn-looking couples clutching envelopes and sperm sample pots and realising with a heavy heart that we were one of those couples.

All I can say is that from my experience, once if starts you have other things to focus on, like working out how to take your meds and Googling like a lunatic 24/7. You also start to feel in with a genuine chance. We were also a case of unexplained infertility although I was 38 and DH a diabetic, both factors potentially impeding our natural fertility levels. Best bits of advice I can give you are to try and listen to the doctors; I was hopelessly pessimistic and mentally writing off the process every time we had a minor setback. IME the doctors are very realistic about your chance of success - we were told to think of it as a three cycle procedure (something like 85% of women deliver a baby after three cycles: one reason why the NHS offering just one is often painfully pointless).

We were successful second time around and were lucky enough to have twins. As I say no one starts out thinking this is what it'll come to but keep your eye on the prize and good luck!

I think I've come round to the idea that we need ivf. But I must admit that for a long time I did see it as failure that we would need such intensive medical intervention to do what others can do without a second thought. It doesn't help that we don't live in a bubble either so all around us people are getting pregnant with no problems at all.

We had tests done after 11 months ttc. I just knew that something was wrong and that it should have happened by then if all was normal. Tests showed that I had pcos, although I do ovulate most months. But also we were told that DH has severe male factor infertility and that ICSI was our only real option. This was such a blow and honestly, I felt that my whole world was crashing down. Hearing the words IVF was the worst news for me at that time. But, it's been 8 months since that diagnosis and I've finally got my head around it. Having researched the process, I've realised that it doesn't have to be the massive thing I've built up. Also, we need to be realistic and think that it may take us 4 cycles so not to see it as a one cycle thing. We could have gone straight for ivf but because we have to self fund we weren't in a position to do it at that time. Instead we agreed to wait until this summer. Actually, I'm pleased we have waited because by then we will have been ttc for 2 years and I can accept that if it hasn't happened in that time it isn't going to. The Dr said it was a bit like winning the lottery, it could happen but it's very unlikely and would be a bit of a miracle. Knowing this has made me realise that we can't waste time putting ivf off when it's our best chance and the chances shorten the older I get. If we were 20, then I might be happy to wait longer.

I honestly think that once I'm pregnant I won't care how it happened so that's what I'm focussing on. We haven't told our family and friends, and so I feel like I can pretend that it will have happened "normally" for us. I don't know why I feel like there is shame involved.

I suppose having male factor diagnosis makes it easier to accept that we need ivf. But I do think that people with unexplained who have been trying for 2 plus years do have to think that this doesn't mean that everything is normal. It's clearly not, it's just there aren't the tests for picking up what's wrong. IVF does have good outcomes for unexplained, so it obviously is able to bypass the problems in many cases, even if we don't know what those problems are.

euro I wanted to come and add to this. I still haven't got my head round ivf and it has been a fear of mine since very early on in ttc. It has felt like something tragic that happens to other people and friends of friends. But now the likelihood is, that may well be where I end up, if I have a viable womb that is.

In my life I have been surrounded mostly by super fertile couples. For most of the people I know, they could actually choose the month they'd like their next baby to be born. And that is how I (rather foolishly) assumed it would be for me. Bu it isn't and my journey is going to be different, high stakes and probably very very expensive. Strangely though, the mind and body are pretty good at getting used to and accepting things that we never thought we could and I'm sure it will be like that with ivf too.carebear says so much of what I feel so eloquently. I've never really 'failed' at anything before. I've just worked harder to make things happen. And sadly, it doesn't matter how much I graft or do things 'right' making babies is a bit more mysterious and intangible and doesn't work like that at all.

As for the unexplained bit well I kind of hope that ivf may shed light on things in that department. There are so many tiny things that could be at play. The shells of eggs can be too tough. The sperms can be a bit rubbish at getting into the egg. Mucus can be hostile. And so forth. It might not be implantation at all and ivf may well address some barriers that are getting in the way. Even my uber fertile friends have had months where nothing happens. Maybe some months we pop out a rubbish egg. Maybe some months the sperm and egg don't even meet. It's horribly frustrating not to know though. But I love the poster who added the stats of 85% in three goes. I like this!

Don't really know what I'm trying to say here or if it is of any use. But I do know that we will make peace with whatever it takes to get there in the end. If someone told me i will need to endure x numbers of ivf and sink into x amount of debt with a promise of my baby at the end of it, id go in smiling. I think it is the not knowing that is hardest.

Good luck and hugs to all of us x

Lots of helpful words on here already, euro. I suspect we will also end up down the IVF route, and I have a similar feeling to many of you that I've failed at this. But on the other hand, the more I think about it, the more I realise that parenting is a lifetime's work. Yes, it would be easier, cheaper, and considerably less stressful to get pregnant in the way most people do. But if we can't, it's a hurdle I need to get over to get pregnant. And once I do, then I can get on with the job of being a parent, from the 9 months of baking a baby, to the rest of my life caring for it.

To de-humanise it, I think of it like a classic car. I only ask it to start once in a while. It refuses, I need to jump start it, which is a bit of a pain; but then once I get that dealt with, I'm sitting in a beautiful purring legend, cruising around the countryside a la Grace Kelly, admiring glances wherever I go. The jump-start is forgotten; the journey is the point :)

I hope you've found the previous posts helpful, eurochick. I just wanted to second what whereismywine said: would it help if you were able to focus on the diagnostic aspects of IVF, rather than the treatment? See it as the next step in the investigations? You will certainly learn more about what's going on as a result of the IVF process.

I don't know if thinking of it that way would help, but I hope it might. Best wishes to everyone on this hard journey.

Very wise words from Carebear.

Coming to terms with IVF is horrible. I grieved for our natural fertility, felt horribly jealous of all friends and family who conceived (I even felt jealous when people had miscarriages...which makes me feel so guilty still at times, especially as I've now had a MC and know how horrible it is...). I felt self-pity - why us? It was so bloody unfair etc. I felt guilty as I'd often wondered if it might happen to us (I have a catastrophe streak and often imagine worst case scenarios, eg before IVF I also imagined life without children) - could I have somehow brought this on us by imagining it before we even started to ttc?

Anyway, we did eventually have a diagnosis - male factor - which helped, in that we had a "problem" to "fix". We're lucky enough to live in London, so had the pick of good clinics, and could afford to go private. And it worked first time. And our wonderful son is now 23 months and I'm incredibly proud of what we went through to have him. I think myself and DH are better parents because of what we went through. I'm quite open about the fact that we had IVF to have him - even with work colleagues and the like (though I do fudge the reason for the ICSI, as DH doesn't always like people to know). I've found that fertility treatment/assisted conception is way more common than I once thought - eg the bank of desks I sit at work has me (DS conceived via ICSI), my male manager (one child, conceived via IUI), a colleague pregnant for the second time (both conceived while on Clomid) and another colleague pregnant for the first time (after second round of IVF).

Euro best of luck with your IVF journey. I found MN a lifesaver during ours.

Another one in the same boat as you - my DH was 'diagnosed' with unexplained male fertility... it sounds like a bit of a cop-out that they don't know what the problem is, but at least it gave us an opportunity to be proactive in terms of trying to 'sort it out'.

Carebear's thoughts a spot-on!

We never thought we'd end up having ivf - our lives are 'average' in so many ways, iygwim, so to have a problem with the most fundamental human functions wasn't something we thought would happen to us, but hey, it did. This is where we are, so we're just getting on with it, although it's taken a lot for me to be able to treat it as anything other than the end of the world / a personal failure. DH found it especially hard and 'his fault' - he refused to talk about it for a while but after all we've been through with it we're now at the 'just-about-joking' stage and are much closer still.

It's also been a test of relationships with others - those who know what you're doing and are incredibly sensitive / those who aren't!) and I've just about perfected the 'Oh, I'm so happy for you!' smile when others announce they're pregnant and bang on about it when inside you're sobbing and just want to tell them to bog off.

Now we're just looking at the ivf as taking back some control, with the help of some experts. We're having to self fund (our NHS Trust doesn't fund any fertility treatments) so we took the opportunity to research our clinics and pick one we thought would be best for us (rather than having the local hospital allocated) - this really helped us to see it as a positive move. We did our first round of icsi last year, which resulted in a bfp, but then sadly I lost the baby early on. Now we've dusted ourselves off and are trying FET with the frosty we had left from the icsi - hopefully he'll thaw out OK, transfer will go well in the next couple of weeks and he'll stick for 9 months!

It's great to be able to come on MN and share thoughts, worries, frustrations - and the joys (yes, there are some!) with others in similar situations. It's also great to come and hear about the successes like Flip's, they really keep you going and remind you that it is possible and it's not quite the end of the world to be told you need ivf, even though it can feel like it.

Thanks again for all the contributions to this thread. I tested this morning at 12dpo to see whether I could stop some medication I am on and it was negative so it will be IVF next cycle.

Cork the diagnostic aspect of IVF is the only bit I am "looking forward" to. I am the kind of person who needs answers and something to "fix". I would be really quite relieved if IVF finds a problem that has not yet been detected (providing it is one that can be solved, of course).

I know what you mean eurochick, needing an answer to 'what is wrong?' and 'how do we fix it?' was a big thing for my DH - he's a very practical person, so being told 'we just don't know' and 'it's one of those things' didn't really help him.

However, sometimes you'll just never know what is causing this - granted the ivf process can rule other causes or problems out (or indeed work out where there might be an issue you weren't previously aware of), but you may never find out more about your specific causes, so you can feel like it's a bit 'hit and hope'. It's a fucker frustrating to say the least.

The main thing is you're tackling the situation head-on and taking back some of the control.

euro loads of luck with your IVF. Plenty of great advice on here already but just wanted to add a couple of 'bigger picture' thoughts from someone who is very lucky to be 19 weeks pg with twins following our 2nd IVF attempt.

In some ways we were lucky in that we had a very clear diagnosis of male factor and were told that it was incredibly unlikely that we would conceive naturally. It was therefore a fairly easy decision for us to just go for IVF as quickly as possible.

DH was devastated by the diagnosis and had many of the feelings of 'failure' that others describe. It then turned out that I had premature ovarian failure and although that meant our chances of IVF success were very low, and it left me feeling 'unwomanly', in some ways it helped that we were both a bit 'broken'.

As I say above, we were successful on our second attempt and for DH one of the very instant reactions for him was that the feeling of failing starting to lift. I remember him saying, "See, my swimmers were up to the job in the end!" For him, although the hurt and pain of infertility remains, he is overjoyed that we are now able to look forward to our family like 'normal' people.

For me, the journey and emotions have been slightly different. However, as I've gone through the anxiety of early pregnancy (probably heightened because of what it took to get here) and as I've been sick and exhausted and seen my body changing, I've realised that the only bit that I/we 'failed' at was the moment of conception, which in reality last seconds, if that. Nurturing a child takes nine months, bringing up a child takes years and if we are all healthy then hopefully my relationships with my children will last 50 or 60 years.

It turns out we were rubbish at one tiny, tiny bit of being parents. But in the grand scheme of things that no longer matters. Maybe I'll be brilliant at hugging my two year olds when they have fallen over. Maybe I'll be great at reassuring my five year olds on their first day at school. Maybe I'll be great at helping my teenagers with working out their exam and career choices. And so on. All those things and a million others matter so much more to me now.

All the very best with your journey x.

Euro thanks for starting this thread - reading all these posts is very cathartic and reassuring for me.
My RL friends would laugh at me being called wise so many times in a row, so thank you for that.

Londonlottie that's a really helpful way of thinking about it as a several cycle thing.

Jumping and Euro god yes the fixing it thing - am still not sure which is worse, to know there's something wrong or just to not know and have nothing to fix!

Where I have felt the same all the way along, if someone could say what i would need to do and how long it would take but with a guarantee of success I think I would just accept it and be happy - its the climbing of the brow of the hill, only to see another hill that i find really hard.

Muddy I love the classic car and Grace Kelly analogy! I will be channelling Grace Kelly as much as I can when i have my legs in the air at my ET next week

Teds that was such a lovely post, I will be re-reading that during my 2WW to keep me calm and focused on the long game and the bigger picture.

x x x

Euro - I'm at a similar stage to you (got first appointment at fertility clinic next week and - if all is well - assume the treatment process then begins). Slightly different in that they have identified a blocked tube with me (although we can and have conceived twice - albeit with two early m/s's).

Even though this has been on the cards for a while I'm suddenly getting cold feet about it ! I'm not saying I won't go through with it (I will) but I'm not as excited as I should be that we have got to this stage. For me it's just opened up yet another can of uncertainties on this TTC saga ... ! Stangely I don't paricularly have a problem with feeling a failure - instead it's EXTREME bitterness towards anyone who conceives without problems. Not healthy and not sure when (or if) I'll ever let it go ..... !

missbrightside - Just ready your reply to my HSG post back in January. Sorry didn't realise it was there.

Our stories do seem very similar. I have eveything crossed for you with starting IVF soon. I understand about the difficulties in not letting go of bitter feelings too. Do keep me up to date. Please feel free to PM me also as I really appreciate talking to someone in a similar postion.

The other thing I would suggest to everyone facing IVF is to look in to alternative therapies leading up to it. Also, my reflexologist told me tonight that she has seen time and time again increased success rates with IVF cycles where the woman has had 1 week off work at least (preferably 2 weeks) with minimum activity after embryo transfer. Sometimes Dr's will give a sick note. Sometimes it is necessary to take annual leave - but she says to make sure you find a way to do this for optimum chance.

Good luck xx

Teds I love the way you point out that conception is such a small part of the parenting process (one those on this thread aren't even there for!). It's really important to remember the 'conception V the whole of the parenting' side.

Jumping I agree, that is a very good point by Teds.

missbrightside just to warn you, things might not move that quickly. I had my first fertility clinic appt back in August, was referred on to the IVF clinic in November and will be starting treatment in March/April! I hope things move more quickly for you but I am just forewarning you that the NHS fertility clinics tend to move S.L.O.W.L.Y in my experience.

This is such an inspiring thread. Teds your post made me cry, in a good way - so absolutely beautifully put. I remember you from an IVF thread and it's so wonderful you are expecting twins now.

I am into our 4th cycle (a frozen one) and probably our last chance of a second child, but every day I realise even more, how lucky we are to have DS (who, it turns out, must have been one of those miracles mrsden mentioned)

For me, it's the hope that's been the hardest thing!! Which sounds weird but that's what I have found the hardest thing psychologically. Having a good cry and talking it out (either in RL if you can or on MN) has been a lifesaver for me, and really helped me deal with disappointments.

But it will ALL be forgotten in an instant and worth it for all of us in the end :)

Best of luck to all the lovely ladies on this thread who are TTC or expecting little ones xxx