I am V V V lucky already, but .......

[BabySilvertooth]

After about 6 years TTC, I found I had early ovarian failure, and high FSH (20ish, if I remember rightly).

I got pregnant after IVF with donated eggs, but miscarried. 2nd round of IVF didn't work at all.

5 months later, I got pregnant naturally. Now have 6 month old miracle baby, and I know I am so so lucky.

I wouldn't like to have IVF again, esp as we had to go to Spain to get eggs. I kind of think I will conceive naturally or not at all, now I have my beautiful DS.

Do you think there is any point in hoping that it will happen again naturally, or is he a one off?

Yes there is hope, if it happened once it could happen again. I think you are more fertile for a year or so after having a baby. That said, as you say he is a miracle baby, there is also a good chance it won't happen again. Hope all goes well for you whichever way it goes!

Hello babysilver - it's wonderful that you had your DS - hearty, hearty congratulations. I hope you are enjoying every minute of it.

And I guess that's what I was thinking about saying. In a strange way I'm in an opposite but similar situation in that I would love DC2 but just haven't been able to conceive despite a v easy natural conception 2.5 years ago. My miracle came along at 37yo when I finally met a decent fella (one I'd known since 15 but overlooked - darn it) and we quickly fell pregnant (cycle 2). I was too v, v lucky - textbook pregnancy, homebirth - very healthy baby. I was over the moon. But weirdly even MORE broody the minute I had a baby. After breastfeeding ended I hoped I would get pg again without much effort. A year later - and a lot of tears spilled - this has not been the case.

I have had tests - relatively low fsh at 9.5 (I am 40yon so it's bound to be a bit elevated)... DP about to be tested too. But tests are just numbers aren't they?

I've decided against fertility treatment as I feel that it could be risky for me and my family, but this is a personal opinion and I totally understand why it is a + choice for others.

But - sorry, finally getting to the point - I feel that I have wasted my last year of enjoying DS (now 22 months) by letting regrets/fear/TTC angst creep in.

So my advice to you is to be open to another pg but not to plan your life around it and symptom spot and drive yourself up the wall. If you can manage that approach...? And if you do manage it, can you tell me to get a grip too?! Thanks, love!

Wishing you and your DS all the best.

Were you doing anything different around the time you fell pg before? Change of job, or diet or anything you could pinpoint as a potential reason for it happening then?

Hi Baby silvertooth - congratulations on having a lovely baby. I'm in the same boat - had a baby despite high fsh. You mention ovarian failure - out of curiousity, how were you diagnosed for this? And if so, what tests did you have done?

Thank you for your advice, Beangrower. We can try our best to get grips. TBH, at the moment he is doing his best to make sure that he never has a sibling, as he will only go to sleep if we co-sleep.

I hope that you can enjoy Christmas, and the next year with our LO. Time goes so quickly, and we should cherish every moment. Even those ones where they are screaming because you won't let them eat your keys!

CareBear - Now you have got me thinking about it, I think I was trying to exercise when I conceived. Bollocks, hope I don't have to go to those lengths again!! I was on holiday as well when I conceived. More holidays is a good plan!

Gobblygook, I don't remember having any tests other than a blood test, and then the consultant told me that I have premature ovarian failure. I didn't question it actually, I just assumed that one followed from the other. Think I must have been in shock, as is unlike me not to do exhaustive searches on the internet of every little thing. Congratulations on your LO too.

Happy Christmas to you and your LOs

Hello both - just a quick note on 'ovarian failure'. This was probably based on high FSH levels (which can vary each month at CD3 anyway) and low AMH levels - both hormones found in the CD3 blood test. Your AMH level indicates the number of eggs left in the egg carton, so to speak. What none of these tests reveal is the quality of the eggs that you have. So if you're still ovulating, even if you have a low ovarian reserve, you can get pg as long as the egg quality is up to it. Full stop. And no number of tests will ever tell you this information.

So - a healthy lifestyle (and don't forget the good sperm at the right time of the month ) will give you a good chance even if you are close to menopause (early or late).

Good luck and like Babysilver says - let's have a lovely Christmas with our little ones and maybe we'll get another little miracle when we're not looking too hard.

Btw Babysilver - we tried cosleeping (I was really up for it) but no one got any sleep and in the end DS was in his own room by 5 months. And we did a bit of CC around 8 months so that he might start sleeping through. Would have gone bonkers otherwise. Good luck with getting the sleep thing nailed. Then the SWI can commence.

Hi Beangrower - yes that's right, all you need is one good quality egg. Alas I just did an AMH test and it came in at 0.07 (can't remember the measurement). Not good, quality aside

Hi gobbly - sorry about your results. It does sound disappointing. It's annoying that there's two different levels for AMH, but I certainly hope yours was the smaller scale. Mine was at the same as my FSH - 9.5 (larger scale - where 15 is the ok figure) - and q frankly I think I should feel reassured as I know so many women have much more difficult numbers to take on board.

Thank goodness we have our DCs even if it is only one. After sorting a pooey nappy up the back situation just now I'm beginning to wonder how much I want to start over..!

I have been having acupuncture and it has helped settle my cycle so that I ov'd a bit later this month which the TCM lady said is good for the egg development.

But there is only so much TTC a girl can take and after May next year (3 years since I last conceived) it is definitely a chapter that I will close in my life.

Wishing you the best.

Hi beangrower

Thanks for your email; sorry, I wasn't even aware there were two scales (or maybe I am but can't find the old score). Do you know any more about this? Thank you again!

Here you go - you're categorized as low fertility (which I am too) but that isn't NO fertility so there's still hope - remember to combine this with your FSH figure though for a better idea of fertility:

Optimal Fertility 28.6 - 48.5 4.0 - 6.8
Satisfactory Fertility 15.7 - 28.6 2.2 - 4.0
Low Fertility 2.2 - 15.7 0.3 - 2.2
Very Low / undetectable 0.0 - 2.2 0.0 - 0.3
High Level > 48.5 > 6.8

I would recommend acupuncture if you still really want a second DC. I am against fertility treatments as I think you have a better chance with natural conception and optimal health. Plus it's cheaper.

Try reading this - it's easier [http://www.drmalpani.com/amh.htm amh scales]

[[http://www.drmalpani.com/amh.htm amh scales] doh!

www.drmalpani.com/amh.htm

Thank you again, so helpful . I've had lots of acupuncture for years and done herbs and very healthy living (always, irrelevant of TTC) . My FSH at his highest was 25 - so...

I am v blessed to have my DS. I know the limitations of all this stuff. I don't intend to ruin these gorgeous early years with him by pushing to conceive again. What will be will be

Good for you - that's a good attitude. I wish I was more Zen. I am working on accepting my situation but am still a bit shocked as DS was conceived 2nd cycle without any real fertility awareness, temping etc. It's funny how we all have boys on this thread isn't it?! How old is your DS?

He just turned a year

It is hard, all the TTC. I had terrible results - AMH and FSH and was doomed to either egg donation or adoption by two fertility consultants. I stepped up all my support - acupuncture, wheatgrass (really think this made a big difference) etc and conceived two days after I got the final damnation to childlessness...

And so here I am again! But I can live with just one - I'm 42, I was v lucky to have him. No point getting greedy when he's perfect

Gobblygook, you are so right, there is no point in getting greedy. We have proved, however, that fertility consultants don't have all the answers.

I think a new year of getting healthy, sorting out sleep and scoffing wheatgrass (which I have not tried before) is on the cards.

But when it comes down to it, we have our perfect boys

Loving the fact that we all did it naturally in the end. And I haven't really had 'damnation' from the fertility people. Just 'low fertility'. You are both an inspiration. I am new to being 40 (Nov) so I think this more than anything slightly threw me.

I might give wheatgrass a go though! Where do you get it from..?

My DP has also said he'd try a bit of acupuncture, bless him. We are going to keep trying (ie keep up the acupuncture and herbs) for another 6 months and then it's time to properly let go.

In a way it's best to see it as a win-win, since we have our lovely DSs already so can't lose.

Happy Christmas to all of you.

I think you know when it's time to let go...

Wheatgrass - I can't remember where I got it from but do a search there's loads on the web. I took capsules. THe best sort is to grow it and juice it, but that's a faff too. I also took Pukka Supergreens (pukka is the brand, so search for that).

Who knows what the combination was...or if it was just meant to be...but I don't think the above hurts. I read quite a lot about women with high FSH and took from that.

Also - I had planned to do TCM - traditional chinese medicine - herbs, essentially - and was on track to start them alongside the acupuncture the following month. They are great for pulling your hormones back in line, even temporarily. This is an interesting article (a paragraph or two down) about it www.londonacupuncture.co.uk/showCondition.asp?ArticleID=5

And - sorry, more info - I went to see Zita West. I don't know if you're familiar with her but she's a (very expensive!) alternative fertility guru in London. She talked about me taking DHEA which is a hormone they're now using in fertility because of its anti-aging qualities on eggs. It's not poss to buy here, but across web from USA, but apparently lots of consultants use it. Do a search, it will come up. I didn't get to that point, but maybe I would have. I also wanted to herbs before any hormones, just because of any possible side effects. But DHEA has been proven to be successful.

Anyway - just some of the fruits of my research! Lots of luck to you.

Hi Gobbly - thanks so much for your long message which I've only just got to. That's really helpful. I will deffo try wheatgrass

I did read Zita West when I was 37 but was already pregnant and didn't realise it so that book gathered dust and is now lost, oops. Not sure I could afford a trip to her clinic but am doing so much based on what people like her have made public.

My current Chinese acupuncturist feels that I don't need herbs but has given some to my partner. I may chat to her again. She has made my cycle textbook - with a day 14 ov and cd29 for AF. I was getting shorter cycles which I have recently read is a sign of age. So she's definitely doing something.

I dream of my partner giving up booze but hey-ho.

I need to feel that there is an end in sight though. As it's all a bit heart-breaking when really I should count my every blessing and that's many.

I hope you have a wonderful time with your DS and it's been nice to meet you here.