so sad

[sarlat]

Hi,

I have been stalking for some time but this is my first post.
I have been TTC for 18 months. I fell pregnant to start with very easily and quickly but unfortunatly miscarried at 6 weeks. Since then, nothing.

I feel tormented. I just don't understand why we have been so unlucky. Recently learnt there is a 'boarderline' or mild male factor issue. But from reading in to this subject and based on our earlier conception success, chances of conception still appear to be reasonable. He takes a good blend of various supplements.

Just don't know what to do with myself. Having initial fertility tests and the Dr's think IUI may be an option. But all this feels very dramatic and too quick. How could we go from super fertile to sub fertile in such a short time.

It's all so weird. Just wondered if anyone else had experiences similar. How do you stop that heavy, sad feeling all the time. Thank you for reading.

My lovely friend has a miscarriage 8 years ago and until January it was 11 years theyd been trying for a baby ......shes pregnant!!! and their dd is due in Sept.

Theyd had lots of tests.

Hi Sarlat, I couldn't let your post go unanswered as it sounds like we are in similar positions. I also fell pregnant last year in the second month of trying. Then a m/c at 7 wks and now into cycle 15 since m/c. Like you I am somewhat in turmoil. I am also perplexed by why it is not happening again and now have friends giving birth or about to give birth over the next fee months when they started trying 6 months after us - it really doesn't help inner turmoil.
I have also had numerous tests and apart from slightly low progesterone , nothing really seems to be a problem. Dh had 7% morphology results but we were told this was fine with his volume. My GP told me to save for ivf last week which made me cry! Have your tests come back normal? Also if you don't mind me being nosey, what Are the borderline results of your DH??
I just don't know how to get rid of that heavy sad feeling. Even if I am happy and in a good mood- it is always there in the back of my mind. Whereas I know of some people who conceived straight away after a miscarriage, I have also spoken to a couple of people who took some time to conceive again. Out of interest how old are you?

Hi again,
Thanks so much for the replies!!
Buggerlugs - not done much research in to IUI yet but guess may have to at some stage. Thank you for your kind words (and nickschick).

Joycep - gosh we are in similar positions. Sorry about your miscarriage. Perplex and inner tormoil - I get ya!
I'm not suprised you cried when your GP told you to start saving for IVF. The one thing I have learnt recently is that some experts seem to feel the need to provide an answer to a problem, regardless of knowledge or relevance. 3 months a go, my GP told us we were unlikely to ever conceive after the SA results - this was becuase he was referring to old WHO standards and got mixed up. The fertility specialist Dr then told us the same SA results were low but not terribley bad. Morphology was 3% but were told 4% is acceptable. Motility a little under but overall count very good.

I am 31. My results have all been fine (only bloods) and I have normal, regular cycles. However, I have recently started to wonder about progesterone or luetal phase as have spotting sometimes during 2ww. Of course, I convince myself this is implantation spotting when it happens. I have also queried NK cells (but not with Dr's). I am also very frightened to have the tube dye test (HSG??). Heard horror stories on the net but also feel blockage unlikely as was told this by gp due to previuos pregnancy.
Guess it may take some of us time to concieve again. But still doesn't feel like it adds up. Do you mind me asking your age too? Have you ever wondered about NK cells Joycep?

Hi Sarlat - I'm 31 too. 3% is fine I have learnt. And there are plenty of people on MN who have conceived with lower results than this. I have considered most things- and i have always been suspicious about my LP. Its only 10/11 days and so I do take progesterone for this- I have to go private to get this. When does your spotting start and how long is your LP? What are Nk cells ?! I have heard of them but not sure what they are. As time goes on , my mind goes into overdrive with possible problems don't you find? Also , I have had the Hsg dye thing done- don't worry, it was fine! The worst thing about it is that it is undignified but it is over and done with very very quickly. I do think it is good to rule things out although I didn't think I needed one either and it was all fine.
If you are interested you should come on to the 6+ months thread. Many of us have been trying for over a year. I never thought I would be a forum person but the ladies there are so lovely and it is a great place to moan, worry, panic and get other people's thoughts!!

Oh Sarlat , I forgot to say I am sorry about your miscarriage too. It really was one of the most miserable experiences I have had but not being able to conceive again Is just as miserable.

Hi Joycep
NK cells are natural killer cells which destroy invading cells e.g. cancer cells. We all have a certian amount which is normal. There is a theory that some women have elevated numbers of these in the womb which destry embryos. Often associated with multiple miscarriages and/or implantation failiure. Dr Beer seems to be the leading person on this subject. Thanks for the reassurance about the morphology. I was originally attributing all our fertility problems to this...but now I'm not so sure.

I would agree that a LP of 10/11 days seems a little short and you have been right to be proactive. It's such a shame that you have to go private for the progesterone. Do you think it is making a difference? Do you think your miscarriage was progesterone related?

My LP is usually 13/14 days but occasionally shorter and this month 11 days - which is very short for me. Spotting happens every 2nd or 3rd month and starts on 6, 7 or 8 dpo - this is why I aways suspect implantation bleeding. It then trails off until period starts properly. My reflexologist is convinced this is implantation. However, I am now wondering about progesterone being a culpret as well. My 21 day test level was 31 for progesterone. I read on another one of your posts that yours is 30. Are these too low do you think? I have also suspected that I am oestrogen dominent as I was diagnosed with a fibroedenoma (sp?) in my breast (which is a begnig lump) a few years a go. Woman with increased oestrogen are supposed to be more likley to get it.

I may have to do the Hsg thing at some stage I suppose - I just wish the Dr's would listen to my train of thought about what could be wrong. But I do agree it is a helpful 'rule out' test.

My mind is definatly in overdrive. I am always concocting new theories about what may be wrong or help the situation.

Will look at those threads. Thanks Joycep!

Hi Sarlat - thanks for the Nk low down. How do we get tested for this??! To be honest I want to be tested for everything because I just don't believe it is normal to be taking this long and I want to rule things out.
That's interesting about your progesterone levels , we are pretty similar in many ways! So my gp said my level of 30 was normal but my gynae said it should be 40+ . gynae said low progesterone can be a reason for a miscarriage but I guess there is no way of telling but it may explain my low LP and your level may explain the spotting... Obviously Not a doctor so obviously just speculating!! Intersting your reflexologist thinks it's implantation though... Out of interest would you recommend reflexology? Also does it matter if you are oestrogen dominant? I always thought the reason for all my cellulite was too much oestrogen buy again one of my numerous theories.
The weird thing about my m/c and don't undertstans how such an early could change things but it ruined my clockwork cycles and shortened them by 3/4 days. Also since then I can't get through the night without needed the loo. Weird huh!!

Hello
NK Cell testing is not routine as many Dr's are not on board with the theory. I have just emailed CARE at Nottingham and enquired about being tested.

I am interested about the progesterone levels being considered a bit too low for some Dr's. I may ask about solutions for that.

It does sound like your m/c changed your cycles / hormones. I have no idea either about why this would happen. Although if you do any reading in to NK cell therory it does suggests that embryos get destroyed earlier and earlier each time conception occurs as the cells become more activated over time. I'm not sure myself about it (like you say, not a Dr)- but something to keep in mind. The m/c seems to be the only trigger for our fertility problems. If we were born with these fertility issues then surley we couldn't have conceived so quickly to start with.

The loo thing is weird - poor you, not getting a good nights sleep on top of everything else.

I don't think oestrogen dominance matters in itself but I understand it can dampen down progesterone which is then a problem for some people when TTC. Apparantly diet / exercise etc can help but to be honest that is sensible advice for most things and not always that helpful to hear.

I would recommend reflexology. Despite this current odd cycle, I have achieved very clockwork cycles and beter periods since visiting. But cycles were okish before anyway. Also, she gives me homeopathic remedies which can be useful for emotional and physical symptoms. She has just started me with a progesterone remedy (not real progesterone) as we both recently supected estrogen dominance. My reflexologist is also open to ideas and theories and has quite a non-medical model approach which is refreshing. But above all else, it is a relaxing treamtment.

Hi Sarlat, can you let me know how you get on with CARE and see what they say. I just looked in to FGA in London as apparently they are one of the few places that do testing if you're not going through ivf and it costs thounsands. What does it cost at CARE?
I am seeing my gynae today and so I will enquire further about early m/c's triggering fertility problems. I will let you know what she says.
Looked in to oestrogen dominance this morning and it does sound like i have this! I know it's always dangerous to dr google things because normally i have symptoms of every disease going ! But it may explain the low progesterone. It's funny your post made me go for an early morning jog this morning...I think i've been eating too much lately which isn't helping!
Yes, I would enquire about your progesterone levels. Most people on the 6months+ thread have levels above 40. When we are tested on Day 21, it is really to check that ovulation has happened. Anything above 30 indicates this. But my gynae said it is definitely too low and she likes to see levels above 40.
Do keep me posted with anything you find out and I will do with you too.
Thanks for info on reflexology - definitely sth to look into.

Hi Joycep. Not sure on costs at CARE - really really hope not thousands. Will let you know when get info. Yes please, do tell me what your gynae says about m/c and fertility. Well done you on the jogging - so hard to stay motivated when the ultimate goal seems so far away. I plan to ask for a repeat 21 day test and see what the results are. Apparantly low progesterone can be linked to an immature egg being released - there's me speculating again. I will keep you up to date anything I find out. Good luck.

hey sarlat, i asked gynae whether my m/c could have triggered sth and she said no it couldn't. I think it can do sth hormonely but she basically fobbed off the question. I expect if i was to ask another gynae, they would say the complete opposite so it's difficult to know. I have heard about the immature thing as well. Although i have been scanned a lot over ovulation time and the egg always seem the right size...apparently!