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Conception

When's the best time to get pregnant? Use our interactive ovulation calculator to work out when you're most fertile and most likely to conceive.

Assisted Conception (and all the bits in between) volume 7

785 replies

Italiangreyhound · 13/04/2011 01:23

Hi ladies Pumplinjoy, Shirley, Lissy, Keziah, Womanly,Val, Late, monkeybumsmum, tametortie and Rowing* - hugs to you all.

woowa of course you can join us.

Choco and Horton and londonlottie do you still look in on us?

Can you all find us?

OP posts:
rowingboat · 19/06/2011 23:17

Hi all,

Lissy woop woop for the FOUR embryoteers (sorry). So that's the siblings sorted then! Grin As far as I know the core of the pineapple contains bromelain (like what scrummy says Smile ) which is supposed to help with implantation if you take it for the five days after transfer.
I'm not sure of what it does, it is supposed to reduce inflammation in the bowel and could thin the blood or improve circulation, seems a bit like aspirin, but without the stomach-related side-effects. Oh, and it does break down protein because it is used to break down protein in experiments. Who knows! It tastes alright as well.
So there you go, that wasn't very helpful was it! Grin

Keziah I can see the traffic jam building up behind you with your float and one leg paddle. Grin You could always build up to having a race with one of those breast-stroke ladies with the flowery swimming hats. Smile

Scrummy thank you! As far as I know I have to attend the clinic until the hcg is down below 5 or to 0. Can't wait! I'm not allowed to do anything more strenuous than 'gentle walking' until then.

Italian it's not that long sweetie! When I get down to 0 hcg you can join me in my good health and fitness campaign!

I'm seriously thinking of taking tomorrow as a sick day, just aaargh! They are so short-staffed at work that I feel guilty having a holiday. I'll see how I feel tomorrow.

Keziahhopes · 19/06/2011 23:57

rowing having a day off sounds a good idea - it is not a holiday, you are undergoing medical treatment!! Am Grin at the breast-stroke race. It is hard enough going in the slow lane, believe me, and the first time I did it I could only move one leg and one arm... I have turned into a breast stroke lady (but purple silicon hat, not flowery Grin) I thought - but thankfully I managed 30 lengths last time with 2 arms and 1 leg (instead of a very sedate 12!!!).... problem is now I am faster than the breast-stroke ladies but can't really go in medium lane. This is my dilemma for tomorrow... how slow am I with one limb not really working!!

sorry - lots of waffle. Made strawberry jam tonight - had to wait up till I could put it into jars.

LissySilver · 20/06/2011 17:52

Argh, steroid making me soooo nauseous! I'm swimming in vats of peppermint tea...

lucylookout · 20/06/2011 19:31

What are the steroids for Lissy? What fab news about your frozen embies too. Fingers crossed the good news keeps rolling in.

Rowing so glad the HCG is going down, down, down. I'm not surprised you were emotional going back to your maternity ward, especially given how much you've been through over the last few months. How nice you got support from a kind nurse. I hope you're being very kind to yourself in RL and that the cramps are getting better.

Keziah Grin at your swimming descriptions. Sounds like you're definitely on the mend.

Italian do they have any idea when there might be a donor available? I hope the waiting isn't driving you too mad.

Scrummy hello! And waves to everyone else.

I'm 9 dpo and started spotting today. AF due to start at the end of the week. I've got PMT and feel a bit flat, trying to keep myself busy and distracted but still have inescapable feeling of spending my life waiting . ARGC appt is a month today.

LissySilver · 21/06/2011 13:09

Lucy- steroids are part of the immune treatment ARGC recommends.

LissySilver · 21/06/2011 15:13

Another quick update. Apparently it's not the steroid that's making me feel sick, it's something called Ritadrine, which is some sort of muscle relaxant. It makes me feel nauseous and super jittery, which is an AWFUL combination. Called the clinic to tell them that I'm having a hard time with it. Hopefully they'll let me stop taking it! Also have to start doing the pessaries twice a day again, in addition to the Gestone shot. Back on Thursday for another blood test to check my progesterone levels...

rowingboat · 21/06/2011 22:13

Hi all,

Lissy that sounds awful. What kind of muscle relaxant makes you jittery, you should be lying around like you have spent a week in Jamaica. Hope they decide your muscles are 'relaxed' enough now. Take some probiotics if you can, munch lots, I had nausea with the medication I had to take, apparently it mucks up your digestive system, does something to the way you digest. I found the probiotics and gaviscon seemed to counteract the burst digestion after a day.

Lucy time to start knitting a very complicated arran jersey, even if you can't knit it will be interesting to see what you make. Smile

Keziah deciding which lane to swim is always hard, there is never a perfect lane. I think you should go for it and get in the lane with the very splashy, 'creates a wake like a cruise liner' bloke. It will act as an incentive! Grin

I didn't take a sickie in the end, wasn't really ill enough, which is good really. I had another hcg today and I have had another drop over 20% in the past two days.
The nurse said the levels can drop quite slowly when they get lower, apparently it is the liver which crunches the hcg, so I need to help mine to work more efficiently. Better stop the Jack Daniels in the morning (I sound like Ke$hia?).
Has anyone got any top tips for improving liver function. Do you think having liver casserole would help?

Keziahhopes · 21/06/2011 22:18

rowing - liking your style!! (Swim lane choice that is). So glad your hcg is still dropping.

lucylookout · 22/06/2011 08:04

rowing I think lemon in hot water in the morning helps liver function.

Right, better get back to my knitting...

Italiangreyhound · 22/06/2011 09:50

Lissy get well soon honey.Sad

Rowing there is a liver diet on the web which is very healthy, might be worth it for a bit. Sorry you too are not well. Sad

Keziah how are you?

Scrummy what's the latest, what's happening. YES I too like the goofy guy in Apprentice, also known as Tom! Go Tom Go Tom. Who do you think will win? I reckon Susie, Tom or Helen. There is no clear winner. Zoe could claw her way back but I doubt it. I think Jim's days are very much numbered! The only wild card 9as far as I am concerned, is Leon, he reminds me of the posh guy who won a few years back (Simon)

Lucy No idea when we will get a donor. It is voluntary for people who are altruistic, kind people or maybe an egg sharer who is also having treatment. Not sure but I am almost giving up hope! I keep watching One born every minute and taunting myself!

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rowingboat · 22/06/2011 20:57

Hi all,

Italian how do you know all this stuff? You are a mine of information, very handy. Do you know of any sites with the liver cleanse diet?

Lucy right off to buy some lemons, oh actually, it's a bit late. Get them tomorrow [write list] How's the scarf going?

Keziah you actually sound very athletic doing so many lengths. You are going to be in tip top shape for this next cycle.

Srummy what are you up to?

I got some vitamins today (excited face), but I probably can't take them until the methotrexate wears off, in case I stop it working. OK [rustles bag] got grape seed extract, green tea extract and pine bark extract. Apparently these are all good at lowering NK cells (if mine are raised). I can't afford the blood tests or the treatment so they will have to do, oh and taking fish oils. The only way I can find out if mine are raised is to ask them, which isn't really working out.

Italiangreyhound · 22/06/2011 21:32

My friend lost lots of weight on a liver cleanse diet a few years back but sadly has put most of it back on! SO I am not saying go mad!

Just Google, darling!

Take a look:

www.webmd.com/balance/natural-liver-detox-diets-liver-cleansing

"Natural Liver Detox Diets (Liver Cleansing)

Using a natural detox diet to remove toxins and poisons from your body might sound like a good idea. After all, what could be better than eating pure and natural foods and avoiding processed and refined ones?

Certainly, there's something to these ideas. But there's also more than meets the eye. The rising interest in lifestyle enhancement has also ushered in many misconceptions about toxins and about the best way to clear them from the body. Fueling the confusion is a major marketing blitz by authors of diet books and producers of supplements and other detoxifying products.
Recommended Related to Mind, Body, Spirit

Healing Waters

By Maggy Howe What gives us life also nurtures body and soul. Maggy Howe explains how we can tap into the restorative qualities of H2O.

Read the Healing Waters article > >

Most natural liver detox diets have little science supporting them. Additionally, detox diets are very restrictive and can cause harm if they're not used with care. Here's what you need to know.
What Is the Idea Behind Detox Diets?

The idea for detox diets comes from the concern that toxins are constantly bombarding our bodies. Toxins are chemicals with potentially harmful effects. They may come from many sources, including:

alcohol
caffeine
pesticides or other chemicals used to grow or prepare food
smog or other substances in the air
substances such as artificial sweeteners added to food
sugar
impure water

The belief is that the body holds onto toxins in the digestive, lymph, or gastrointestinal system as well as in skin and hair. They, then, can cause problems such as fatigue, headaches, nausea, and a wide range of chronic diseases.
What Is a Detox Diet?

Detox diets are designed to help the body rid itself of toxins. To attempt this, you temporarily give up certain kinds of foods. This is called fasting or purging. Then you gradually reintroduce foods. For example, you might start with a liquid diet for one or two days. Then you might move to four or five days of brown rice, fruit, and steamed vegetables. Finally, you might add other foods, except red meat, wheat, sugar, eggs, and prepackaged or junk food.

In general, organic foods and drinks and lots of water are required on a natural detox diet. And alcohol, caffeine, tobacco, drugs, processed or refined foods, and certain supplements are not allowed.

In some cases, a detox diet is paired with changes in lifestyle, also meant to foster the cleansing of toxins from the body. Saunas and exercise might be recommended to increase sweating, another way to purge the body of certain substances.

These are examples of popular detox diets:

Master Cleanse or Lemonade Diet
Fat Flush Diet
Liver Cleansing Diet
Martha's Vineyard Detox Diet
Raw Food Diet"

You could also try

livercleanses.net/diet.html

BUT I have not tried all this! Talk to your GP and also your natural health food shop. Generally I expect it will be a case of of easing up on porcessed and articifial foods, sugar, wheat etc and getting lots of natural protein, plants etc and nuts and oils and not tons of any one thing!

diet.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Liver_Cleansing_Diet

PLEASE NOTE "Benefits and Cautions

The low fat nature of the Liver Cleansing Diet helps individuals lose unwanted weight. Cleansing poisonous substances from the liver can re-open bile ducts, restore energy and heal the body.

However, as a word of caution, the effects of detoxification can be unpleasant and can last a few days to a few weeks. Detox symptoms include headache, lack of appetite, nausea, fatigue, dizziness, diarrhea and others. Don't let these inconveniences stop you from overhauling your liver's health. The benefits of a clean liver far outweigh the discomfort of breaking food additions and eliminating toxins from your body. As with any new dietary regime, seek the guidance of a trained certified professional. "

I am NOT recommending it, speak to your GP first!

there are masses of sites, be SELECTIVE!

www.liverdoctor.com/

All the best.

Hugs to all.

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Italiangreyhound · 22/06/2011 21:34

Having said all that your first port of call should be..... you guessed it.... your GP!

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beginnings · 22/06/2011 22:05

Hello!

May I join you ladies? I've been lurking for a while and think I'm ready to jump in. I'm 34, have low amh, high fsh, raised cytotoxicity levels and am heterozygous for factor v Leiden so have problems at both ends! DH has no problems at all. I had a cycle cancelled due to poor response in December 2010, had a fresh cycle in March from which we got three eggs and two blasts and got a BFP. Lost it a week later. On Monday found out that the FET we've just had didn't work. How much do I wish I'd pushed it when I asked if I should have immunology and clotting tests in January and was told no!! I did conceive naturally once, when we'd only been ttc for a couple of months but nothing since and I lost that at 7.5 weeks. Feeling a bit raw at the minute but ready to go again....

Anyway, while friends are very supportive I've no one in RL who's in the same boat....looking forward to learning more from you ladies. Does anyone know anything about DHEA or have a view on it?

lucylookout · 22/06/2011 22:16

Welcome beginnings, I'm so sorry to hear of what you've been through already and very much hope that your luck starts changing.

I'm very interested in DHEA too (I'm 39 with low amh) as I, like you probably, have heard that it can increase egg quality (and sometimes, somehow increase AMH again). I also have low testosterone which means that a DHEA supplement might be suitable for me. I asked my Dr about it on Monday and she said that because it's a hormone that already exists in our body (it's the precursor to testosterone I believe) she couldn't see any harm in taking it, but that she thought it best to check with my fertility clinic first. I have an appt with a new clinic at the end of July so that's on my list of things I want to ask. Apparently some clinics (like Zita West) recommend their patients take it if they are older, or have reduced reserve. Have you heard any more, or any different? I'l keep you posted if/when I find out more.

Italian were you watching? My money's on Helen (love Suzy's classic 'um, are the french fond of their children?' Grin .

beginnings · 22/06/2011 22:29

Thanks lucylookout. I mainly heard of DHEA being used for people over 35 as it improves egg quality but an acupuncturist told me about the evidence around it increasing amh. Apparently, it can stimulate more of the primordial follicles which increases response and therefore lowers amh. The view of the acupuncturist was that while amh is linked to ovarian reserve, the reserve mightn't be as low as the amh makes it appear. I've also heard that the guy who is the main proponent of it has the patent so a bit of a vested interest!! I'm due for a follow up at my clinic in a couple of weeks so I'm going to ask about it then. I know I can get pregnant and am hoping now with the help of heparin and steroids I can stay pregnant. My fear now is another cancelled cycle so I just want to give myself the best chance I can of avoiding that. i think I agree with your gp, if DHEA is natural, can it really do any harm??

Italiangreyhound · 23/06/2011 08:28

beginnings sorry to hear your story. I do hope things will look up. I would certainly recommend looking into immunology issues. I have one dd, aged 6, conceived through IUI and have been ttc again since she was 9 months old.
Had a very early miscarriage 5 years ago (unassisted conception). Since then have had many failed IUI attempts and one abandoned IVF. Were told early on that donor eggs would be our best bet and we decided just over two years ago to go for it. I went on the waiting list in the UK and had treatment about 15 months ago, it failed. So we went back on the list 11 months ago and are not at the top of the list and awaiting treatment. This is our final attempt, unless we get any frozen embies (which is unlikely). I have asked for stage 1 immunology tests and I will have some drugs to help with sticking issues. All the best to you.

Yes, Lucy I watched. It was good. Susie was annoying but she pulled through, she did well. I knew what she meant; she meant are the French famous for liking kids? products! I thought Helen shone too and I really think it will be between Helen and Susie. I don't think showing a mixed panel of people that you can fit in a child's car seat is a winner! Men uninterested/women possibly jealous! Melody was a nightmare, she showed herself to driven but also she showed herself to be selfish and uncooperative, if Sugar wants that sort of person he is being a bit silly (IMHO!). But I reckon she might be in the final too. I have said since day 1 it would be Melody and Susan in the final! I got sidetracked with guys like Leon and Glenn and Jim but I would now be surprised to see Jim in the final and the other two guys have gone. Who do you think will make it?

Hugs to all.

OP posts:
beginnings · 23/06/2011 09:04

Hi Italiangreyhound. Goodness, you've been on a heck of a journey. I actually did eventually have the immunology tests in April and it was those that showed the raised cytotoxicity levels. I'm at the Lister and had them done there. I'd recommend them as they don't send them to Chicago, which means the blood gets to the lab quicker. We were told at one point that we should also think about egg donation but I'd like to see how at least one more fresh cycle goes first.

Does anyone else find themselves talking about this very matter of factly while not feeling very matter of fact at all!

lucylookout · 23/06/2011 10:42

Hi beginnings, will be interested to hear what the Lister think of DHEA. Will you please let me know? I've been waiting for an initial consultation appt at ARGC (have one in 27 days a few weeks) and hope to be treated by them. However, I think they have a cut off for FSH of 10. First time mine was measured in Jan it was 9.9, second time, (after a couple of months of wheatgrass) it was 5.5, but I'm well aware it might be high again the next time. Do The Lister treat women with FSH over 10? What's yours?

I do know what you mean about talking matter of factly about this. I have talked to so many people about what has happened (doctors, gyneacologists, fertility specialists, nutritionists, acupuncturists, counsellors etc) that I have a 'script' (beautiful DS aged 3.9 conceived naturally, 20 week termination in Feb 10 due to lethal abnormality, mc June 10 at 8 weeks, since then one IUI attempt in May but no pregnancies) but if someone makes me veer off that script, or shows me unexpected kindness, or asks me too much about how I'm feeling, I crumble Sad .

Italian I'm backing Helen. She doesn't flap, she doesn't steal other people's thunder, she's strong, intelligent and extremely capable and just gets on with it, outperforming the others quietly every time. I think Suzy has some potential, but while she is smart in some ways, in other ways she really comes across as being a bit stupid (IMO) and very immature. I guess Sugar might like her because of her age and what she's achieved, but I think he'd have his hands full with her. As for Melody, she's a nightmare! As PM, Tom should have just said 'No, we're sharing the appts you made'. It's like him saying to her that she can't sell the products he chose because she wasn't there to choose them too. Ridiculous, but that was just his own silly fault. I don't think (but I could be wrong!) that Sugar would partner her, I think she's in still because she provides entertainment for TV viewers through causing conflict and annoyance amongst the contestants.

rowingboat · 23/06/2011 10:52

Hi all,

Italian thank you for the links. I very rarely drink alcohol so I've got that covered. I inhale lots of smog and eat lots of nasty additives so that's covered, or is that the wrong way round... should I drink more? Grin
I definitely don't want to be on a 'diet' at the moment, it's bad enough having the methotrexate without being hungry. Luckily the craving for carbs has definitely subsided so I'm not scoffing cakes any more (well not all day).

Beginnings welcome to the thread, we like new people on here! Smile
I did take DHEA when I did my two IVFs and had a good response, but no bfps. Probably just too old as I didn't do my first IVF until I was 42. I found info on lots of US threads where ladies were taking DHEA and, anecdotally, it seemed to increase the egg quality. The low amh can be misleading and I have seen a fair number of low amh ladies go on to have successful IVF treatments.
You seem to be doing all the right things, is factor van leiden a type of clotting disorder? If so the clexane should do the trick. Are you having the level 2 immunes.
I didn't have my ds until I was 38 so from my perspective you have bags of time. Grin

Hi to everyone, hope you are all doing away! [waves]

beginnings · 23/06/2011 11:28

lucylookout what an awful awful thing to happen to you last year. I am so very sorry. I really do wish you the very best. You must be a very strong person to still be moving forward with this. I will let you know what the Lister say, my appointment is in a couple of weeks time. I know what you mean about a script! It feels like rolling out a bunch of stats but not really engaging with them. When somebody makes me engage with it......well, I think you get the picture!

I also heard that ARGC are strict about FSH. Mine was 14.4 last year and was 8.8 when measured in February 11. The Zita West clinic told me that Dr. Taranissi will usually only start treatment with an FSH of less than 10 but that he might be persuaded to go to 12 in some cases. The Lister do take people with high FSH.

Thanks for the welcome rowingboat! I do keep concentrating on my age and hoping that what little is there is still good and we can make something out of it. Yes, there is a problem with clotting. I'm hoping that the clexane will sort it. I've been told I'll have to take it throughout a pregnancy.

Keziahhopes · 23/06/2011 13:26

Hi beginnings - sorry to hear of your bfn's. I am 36, had one failed ICSI and none to freeze, having Immune testsing - although the dr told us not to we told them it is our money, no nhs funding, therefore it was cheaper to spend £2,000 on testing than another failed cycle. However having to wait 3 months to have results interpreted by a Dr, but do know one result = Factor V Leiden heterozygous and low Protein C. Have you had level 1 and 2 immune tests?

beginnings · 23/06/2011 14:01

Hi Keziahopes. You are doing absolutely the right thing. I am convinced if we'd known about the clotting and the cytotoxicity in March, I'd still be pregnant now. I have had level 1 and 2 tests, I think, they weren't described as that to me but I've just looked online at what they are and I've had all of those!! Why do you have to wait three months and are you sure you can't get some of them done by your GP? We had to have the killer cells and cytotoxicity done privately although everything else was done on the NHS. Persuading them to do the chromosome karyotyping took a while but they did in the end.

Italiangreyhound · 23/06/2011 17:03

beginnings yes, I guess after a while it does become second nature. When I first read about egg donation I was like 'oh er what' Confused, now I am like whatever! I talk to people about it and I think they must find it funny to think of but I have just been on this journey for so long. We started trying for our family in 2002 so next year it would be 10 years but I do think we will stop before next year. Having DD after only 2 years was fab and has kept us going. I do wish the immunology tests were standard!

Yes, Lucy I agree, Helen may well win. I think the final 4 will almost certainly be H, S, M and one other and I think Helen will probably win. If it were the straight forward apprentice she would walk it, but because it is about starting a business, and she is one of the contestants who has not, that is why I have a doubt. She has never been in the board room because I don?t think she has lost at all! Is that a record! I really can?t see Sugar setting up in business with anyone except Helen, Tom or Susie. Tom is really a great person to do business with, honest, inventive and clever but he is not pushy enough. I tend to think pushiness can be taught but real inventive talent cannot! Yes, Melody can sell it but who will invent it? The goal this time is not just running a business but starting one that takes brains not just pushiness! Susie is pretty annoying! Melody is very annoying and mean-spirited (IMHO) I think Leon was a bit enamoured with her and Tom was just plain scared of her! I feel sure that certain people are kept in for their V appeal. Do you get the radio Times? Nick Hewer writes about the candidates, it is so funny. It says of Jim ?I was sin Belfast the other day and everyone convinced he is going to win it- apparently he and his wife are the Posh and becks of Cookstown, County Tyrone, where they live.? I think Jim (when he dodged the board room) signed his own firing warrant, and Leon and Glenn also came out badly from that whole thing too, now they are both gone

rowing how you doing? Wink I hope you will take all the liver stuff with a pinch of salt (NOT literally) I mean the whole raw verses cooked thing, some food is actually better cooked, or rather different cooked, so you can get stuff from raw carrots and cooked carrots etc!

www.medicinalfoodnews.com/vol04/issue7/carrot

goneraw.com/forum/cooked-carrots-better-raw

I ended up reading loads about raw food but I would not only eat raw food! I would always rather have a balance!

Keziah Hugs >

Lucy anything to report? Wink

Lissy are you feeling better? Sad

Scrummy how is it going? Smile

Hugs to all.

OP posts:
Italiangreyhound · 23/06/2011 17:09

Sorry that should be

.... certain people are kept in for their TV appeal.

It says of Jim ?I was in Belfast the other day and everyone convinced he is going to win it- apparently he and his wife are the Posh and Becks of Cookstown, County Tyrone, where they live.?

Wink
OP posts: