Assisted Conception (and all the bits in between) volume 7

[Italiangreyhound]

Hi ladies Pumplinjoy, Shirley, Lissy, Keziah, Womanly,Val, Late, monkeybumsmum, tametortie and Rowing* - hugs to you all.

woowa of course you can join us.

Choco and Horton and londonlottie do you still look in on us?

Can you all find us?

rowing- YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm so absolutely delighted for your BFP! I'm sure the spotting is just implantation bleeding. I would definitely phone the clinic for advice and reassurance.

Italian- I agree, I just want to be pregnant so badly! My life won't ever be complete without a child, it is my life goal!

Clara- Welcome to you and your partner! Good luck with your IUI, I hope all goes smoothly. The best advice is to relax and go with the flow. I hope to hear good news from you soon!

lucy- I didn't know that program was on, but I think if I'd watched it it would've made me angry. How was it?

AFM, still waiting for AF....ho hum.

Welcome Claralou, nice to have you here. I have just had IUI, it didn't work, so I'm not actually a success story, but italian, who I'm sure will pop along soon is and has a beautiful DD to show for it. My IUI was kind of unlikely to work from the start, but we gave it a pop anyway. I'm now waiting for a consultation to possibly have IVF instead.

I'll hang about this thread though if that's OK with all of you. Having got to know you a bit I want to witness a few more BFPs!

Lissy the show was ok. There was a fair bit of 'women feel young and shiny on the outside when they're 40 but they don't realise how old and wrinkly their ovaries are' blah, blah, blah. Yes, we know all that already and most of us in this position didn't want to leave it this late, it's just how life turned out. However, there were plenty of success stories, including one lady who met her partner when she was about 38, started trying straight away, had no luck so moved onto IVF. Had 9 rounds, including one BFP and then mc before giving up. By now she was late 40s, and she seemed quite sad being interviewed and I was thinking, this is really depressing, poor lady, BUT she didn't give up on her goal to have a family and adopted a Russian baby girl, and she said that now she felt 'complete'. I found that very touching and encouraging and thought about how I was feeling the other day when I said that by hook or by crook I'll have another child, I'm not giving up either. I would have liked to see more on donor eggs. In fact I'm not sure if they mentioned it at all.

Hope AF arrives soon Lissy. I guess after all the drugs there's no predicting when she might arrive?

Wishing everyone a good weekend x

Hi Claralou436 I have one dd, aged 6, conceived through IUI and have been ttc again since she was 9 months old. I'm now waiting for a donor egg so that I can have my final attempt. We had two goes with IUI, the first was with two follicles and no success and the second was with just one follicle and resulted in our dd.

All the best.

Lucy so sorry I did not realise that your IUI was not successful . I hope, really hope that you will get a good result soon. What is the plan for the next step? Please do stay around, if it is helpful to you.

I watched a bit of that programme about too old to be a mum and it was bloody annoying! I mean the basic message was don't leave it too late to have a baby but really it was dreadfully patronising and stupid! So well done those of you who did not bother with the twaddle! I think I have more energy now than I had in my 20s and I stay up later - so yes, it was pretty crap but thanks for suggesting it Lucy for suggesting it, and yes, the lady who adopted was lovely and was a bright spot in the programme (I should say I only watched the second half!). There was a bit where the baby was asleep and the mum was having a kit and the camerman/dad joked 'Are you sleeping because you are 42?' and I thoughht WTF (sorry I don't usually swear as you know!) BUT I am sure any mum to a newborn baby would do what we all get advised to do and sleep when they sleep!

Lissy you go for it girl, your goal, you are going to get there. HUGS.

Rowing how goes it?

Do you all know Signourgey Weaver is over 60, she still looks like she did in Working Girl! I am amazed!

Hugs to all.....Love and hugs and baby dust to all!

Sorry the baby was asleep and the mum was having a kip! AND Lucy sorry that sounded RUDE, I am glad I watched it, I am used now to being old but I guess what I feel is you are what age you are! If someone said to me at 27 do you want a baby, well yes, I did, but I had no hubby, no home and no job! I think I started trying as quickly as I could. Maybe if I could turn back time I would have started a bit earlier! But that is all in the past!

The good bit was Zita West annalysing people and seeing if they have long to go on their egg reserve. I met her in person at the London fertility show and she was great. She noticed my bloated tummy straight away and asked if I had been scanned! Most people just think I am pregnant!

No offence taken Italian! I was glad I watched it but only because there was no bad news that I didn't already know and I was cheered by women's determination in the face of negative statistics. I get what you mean about patronising, I particularly thought the woman 'specialist' seemed to have it in for other women.

Italian I have a question, ignore me if I'm being nosey and forgive me if you've already posted the story, but did you have any rounds of IVF after IUI, before moving onto donor?

Hi all,

sorry I haven't been on, having a bit of a time of it. I started bleeding more heavily yesterday and I'm just feeling rubbish. Off to buy a clearblue test to see what it says.
Revoltingly, I have kept first morning pee [disgusting face] so I can use the test rather than wait until tomorrow.
Don't have any symptoms at all. [crawls off]

Keeping everything crossed for you Rowing, I so hope it all goes well for you. Let us know how you get on (((((hugs))))) x

Hi, can I just ask a quick question.....been trying for 8 months with no luck. Going through the VERY slow process of testing with NHS at the moment, but slightly hoping that the delays will actually lead to a natural conception before the 12 month milestone. I'm 38, about to turn 39, so time is not on my side, but I'm still trying to stay positive and hopeful. But, to prepare myself, I do have couple of questions - we won't get treatment on NHS and to be honest, I would probably choose private anyway to allow myself a bit more control and to keep things moving. been looking at the options around clinics and got my eye on either Lister or ARGC. So, to cut to the chase,

1. do any of you have experience of both and how would they compare?
2. have I really understood correctly that a cycle of IVF with Lister would be around £9K taking into account monitoring, blood tests, drugs etc.

I know this is early days for us, but just wanting to do my research in advance. Many thanks for any advice in advance.

Hi Scrummy, I just wanted to acknowledge your questions, although I'm afraid I don't have any answers. I have just had a failed IUI with a different London clinic and have made an appt with ARGC for further treatment (hopefully). They have a 12 week waiting list though so my appt isn't until the end of July. I have decided to have a consultation with them because they have the best stats in the country for my age group (39 soon to be 40), although the intensity of their treatment would not apparently suit everyone. I have 'heard' (on these forums) very good things about Lister too. Do they have a more holistic approach there? Maybe it's worth finding out if they have open days/evenings at the clinics and you can see what feel you get from each. The fertility friends website is quite good to have a mooch around and see what people say about the clinics. Have you also looked at the HFEA website? They show all the stats for all UK clinics, broken down by treatment type, age etc etc. The info is displayed in the same format for every clinic, so you can really compare like for like.
As for costs I'm not sure. No doubt both are very expensive, but I'm at the fingers in ears stage saying 'LA! LA! LA!' loudly.

Hi all,

Claralou welcome. Not long to go before your first treatment. I went to Reprofit in Czech Rep. If you need any advice about assisted conception in Eastern Europe feel free to ask.

Lucy of course you can stay here. I'm staying forever! They will have to prise my fingers off the door frame.

Italian that is interesting about Zita W's comment. Why did she ask about being scanned?

Hi Scrummy no advice here, but there are a few success stories from AGRC on here.

Lissy any sign of AF yet? I'm sure I drank Motherwort tea to bring on AF ages ago, also I think I read somewhere that dong quai encourages AF, if you feel like dabbling.

Lottie your FIL sounds terrific fun. What on earth happened with the car? Poor you having to listen to childcare advice from the 70's.

My news is still bleeding. Taking higher doses of progesterone seems to help (I mean huge) but I don't have that much to waste. I am still waiting for a new prescription from CZ.
That revolting wee is now down the loo, where it belongs, but I did do a clearblue test and it came up pregnant 2-3 weeks. At least that is reassuring, despite the bleeding. I just want to relax a bit. Wah!

Lucy and rowing thanks for your comments. I did spot that Lister has an open evening each month and have sent a query to ARGC, so will follow your advice on that. I've checked through the stats and these two do seem to bring the best results. I'll be interested to follow your journey Lucy' so if you don't mind, I'll lurk around to see how things develop with you. And will probably ignore any reasonable reference to price

Sorry the IUI didn't bring your BFP, Lucy

rowing congratulations from me too. I can only imagine what that feels like. The normal 2WW is bad enough!

And the very best of luck to all of you.

Rowing, that's great news about your test. Phew. Can you go to your dr for help with the progesterone once they reopen? I have 4 cyclogest pessaries left over and I'd be really happy to send them to you if they'd help. Just pm me with your address and I could send them today x

Yes please do hang about scrummy. But I hope you get your own natural BFP before any of your appts happen!

Here's the list. Anyone please feel free to add yourself if you want. It's not compulsory! I'm just nosey:

BB 42, 1 DS aged 4, unexplained fertility - problems with embryos sticking, 2 failed IVFs, this is last cycle
Italiangreyhound 46, DD aged 6 (from IUI), MC 2006, IUI/failed IVF, awaiting IVF donor eggs May 2011
KeziahHopes 36, no children, male factors and testing for immue issues, failed Ist ICSI March 2011, no frosties.Waiting to see consultant in July.
Lateatwork 40, DD aged 2.5 3 MC, frozen eggs 2006, IVF at ARGC twins due October (using fresh ingredients...)
LissySilver 36 (almost 37) DH is T4 paraplegic, so IVF a must. 1st cycle May 2010 successful, miscarried at 8 weeks. Cone biopsy following an ERPC. Second cycle Oct. 2010 unsuccessful. Starting at ARGC next week!
Lucy Lookout 39, DS aged 3.5, low ovarian reserve, DH all OK, 20 week termination Feb 10, 8 week mc June 2010, failed IUI cycle May 2011. ARGC appt in July.
Monkeybumsmum 35, DS aged 4, 2 MC's 2008, 2nd trim. loss 2010, failed cycle IUI 4/11, 2nd cycle about to start.
Nooknook 32, low ovarian reserve and thyroid issues, on 1st IVF cycle.
Tametortie 30, 1 dd with previous partner, unexplained fertility, TTC 4 years- 1 mmc in may 2008, currently egg sharing at crm in Coventry.
WomanlyTales 35, PCOS, Clomid resistant, 1st cycle IUI failed, Waiting for next steps
Woowa, 32, DH is C5/6 incomplete tetraplegic, IVF with ICSI only possibility. DD 14 months from 1st cycle, now onto second cycle...

Hi all. I wanted to throw in my two cents for scrummy. I am currently undergoing treatment at ARGC. Before my two cycles last year, I also looked into the Lister. With both places, I can safely say that you should budget between £8-10K for a cycle. I chose ARGC because of their successful numbers. You can keep the costs down at ARGC by opting out of certain things, like the immunes testing, which is close to £1000, or a hysteroscopy, which is £1260, but those are some of the things ARGC is known for. You can also alleviate some of the costs of the monitoring cycle by having your GP do the Day 1-3 blood tests, which ARGC will happily accept. Every patient has to do a monitoring cycle, which is exactly as it sounds. They will do blood tests on Day 1-3, as well as HIV, Hep B and C (which you can get your GP to do), and then a mid-cycle scan and your immunes testing, if you so choose. Once treatment starts, it is an extremely hands on and intense process. You'll have to be there every day in the later stages of down regulation, and then tested twice daily once stimulation starts. The treatment is tailor made for each patient, and you will get a phone call every evening with instructions for your drug regime. Currently, I've been sniffing Suprecur for what seems like forever, but despite the sniffing I had a follicle growing, so they've given me Provera to bring on AF, and so I haven't been to the clinic in over a week. I feel very confident that ARGC is the clinic to get me PG. Feel free to ask any questions...

rowing- Yay for another BFP! I can sympathize about the bleeding, though. I'm sure you're biting your fingernails off!

lucy- Make a list of all the questions you want to ask at your initial consultation at ARGC. Also, I sent in all relevant medical paperwork regarding my previous cycles, so that they would have it by the time my appointment arrived.

lottie- You must have so many grey hairs of FIL's visit!! I really hope he offered to pay for the car!

Hi Italian! I know you like to be on top of all the religious observances, so I wanted you to know that the next Jewish holiday coming up starts next Tuesday at sundown. It's called Shavuot, and it's the day that G-d gave the Jewish people the Torah. It's not really a major holiday, like Rosh Hashanah or Yom Kippur or Hanukkah, but it's still a very important one. On Shavuot, we traditionally eat dairy (loads of chocolate and cheese ), we read from the Book of Ruth, and men will have an all night Torah study.

AFM, STILL waiting for AF. ARGH! It feels like she should be here, but she ain't...

Hope everyone has a lovely and restful bank holiday...

BB I really, really hope this will go well for you. Sending quick prayers up and good vibes your direction. Whatever happens, thinking of you.

Rowing honey. Thinking of you. Relax and .... breathe! rowing Zita West asked about me being scanned because my stomach is sometimes very bloated and I look like I'm about 6 months pregnant. I guess she knew I was not pregnant (or what would I be doing at the fertility show!). Also bloating is a sign of ovarian cancer, so I have had a check with the doctor. BUT my bloating is just irritable bowel. It does look very obvious which is why sometimes people ask me if I am pregnant!

Scrummybumb can?t advise on those clinics as not had experience of them. All I would say is are you doing it (having sex) enough! It is recommended that you do it every other day from day 8 until well after you have ovulated. Take a look at Zita West?s books. You might be able to get one from a library if you are lucky enough to still have one in your area!). Good luck.

Lissy happy Shavuot. Wow, a celebration where you eat chocolate! Well, I guess we have Easter, although the chocolate bit of that is not in the Bible, of course! Have a good time.

lucylookout hi, yes, we had attempts before donor egg attempt. I have lost track of all the details but roughly after DD, when she was 9 months old we started trying and I got pregnant (naturally) after about 4 months but did not realise it as I was bleeding a bit. We went for a scan to see if we could start treatment and found a tiny ?bean? on the scan. But no heartbeat. It was what is called a missed miscarriage, but I called it Sammi. We left it as it was and let it all come out naturally, which led to a hospital visit as it was all a bit scary and traumatic. We started trying for IUI again that following summer and it did not work. The dose was upped but still no follicles. We were told it was very unlikely we would conceive with my own eggs. That was 5 years ago. After a couple of months we investigated adoption but DD was too young. We went for second opinion appointment about treatment and we told the same. That we were unlikely to get pregnant with my eggs. After about 7 months I decided I wanted another second opinion and found a different clinic, one which I knew would do donor eggs, and we went to see them. They also told us it was unlikely with my eggs but were willing to give it a go. We had several goes with our own eggs, forget how many, always IUI, and then we tried IVF with my own eggs, but they either never got my system under control or they could not get any follicles, or both. I kept looking into adoption but the answer in our area was always that our DD was too young for us to go for it at that time. Finally, after several years of this we decided to go for donor eggs and waited about 14 months before we had our go, and it did not work. I looked into adoption and we would have been eligible to go for it after a few months wait but I just did not feel ready for it then. I know this will sound odd but I was so keen to try fertility treatment again. So after a further couple of months we decided to have one final go. We have now been on the list waiting for about 10 months and are about to go for it. If it does not work we will not look into it again. We may go for adoption. We may not. The process has work me out, tested my faith (I am a Christian) made me realise just how lucky I am to have my wonderful DD, and also brought me into many wonderful people also on this fertility journey. All in all it would have been a whole lot easier not to have been on this road but that is the one I am on! Good luck to all my fellow travellers!

Sorry that should read ....The process has WORN me out, tested my faith (I am a Christian) made me realise just how lucky I am to have OUR wonderful DD, and also brought me into CONTACT WITH many wonderful people also on this fertility journey.

Morning ladies! AF FINALLY here!

~rowing congrats on the clearblue reading - despite bleeding it is looking promising. When you get to 6/7 weeks pregnant why not go to your local nhs early pregnancy unit (in daytime hours when it is open) and if you are still bleeding ask for early scan to reassure you?

Scrummmy - no idea of the Lister, but heard good things of it on the boards here. Sadly all private cycles cost £££. NHS criteria for cycles are strict and have joy of postcode lottery. For us it was:
no children at all on either side
under age 39, no smoking either of us, bmi for me under 30 and for dh and over a minimun size too. Also over age 23
have been ttc for 3 years or a medical reason diagnosed by nhs to show a reason for infertility

• we met the above and had our one and only nhs cycle. Sadly it failed, none in the freezer as the nhs here insists all are grown to blastocysts and only then freezes them if grade 2 or above (as otherwise they pay for FET's, so this is to avoid it, grrrrr - hated my embryo's being "wasted" this way).

Private costs £££ but ways to save money (say I who am preparing for first private cyce) are:

• do all basic tests on NHS if money is an issue, if not and time is don't! This includes: basic infertility screen, thyroid, prolactin (latter 2 to see if medical physical reason for infertility), recent smear test, chlymadia test, HIV, Hep tests (latter 2 for both of you) plus a HSG (to see if blocked fallopian tube).
• don't do Immune testing (level 1 or 2) privately unless you feel there is a need, or have had miscarriages - this is what we were told, they said or 3 failed cycles. We had one failed cycle and paid now for level 1 and level 2 tests ( £900 plus £1300 roughly) as I have known immune issues for non fertility issues

Anyway, sorry if you know all of above. If I lived near London I would certainly consider the Lister!! Good luck x

PS - would also consider ARGH I should also have said.

Hope you're feeling OK Keziah.

Lissy Yay! Bet you've never been so glad to see AF!

Italian I'm sorry to hear what a difficult time of it you've had over the last few years. It is certainly a testing time. Sometimes, when I look back on last year, I wonder how I coped, but somehow you just do, don't you. I guess that the one day at a time approach really works. I'm sorry too, I didn't realise you have tried donor eggs once already. Stupid question maybe, but in preparation for a DET is it advised to do all the normal preconception things? Like eating healthily, cutting down on alcohol and caffeine etc. Or can you be a little more relaxed about it all? I so, so hope it works for you this time. It sounds like it's about time things work out for you.

rowing I hope the bleeding has calmed down and that you're feeling calmer.

AF started in earnest today. I still feel fine. My ARGC appt is definitely the light at the end of the tunnel for me at the moment. It looks like this month is out for natural conception too, as MIL is coming to stay over the crucial period, so I'll be the one guzzling in the corner for the next month. Hic

Thanks again for all your comments and advice.

Italian I have that book and even managed to get DH to read some bits of it. I'm currently debating whether to start a detox (which we have done in the past and really enjoyed it, DH was the one suggesting it!) but otherwise very much seem to follow the advice anyway. I don't drink (apart from the sneaky glass of wine or two before 2WW, given up caffeine, eat organic where I can, which is pretty easy as I have an organic lunch place around the corner at work etc.) We've tried to ensure that we DTD at least every other day and sometimes if ov occurs on a weekend, one more extra for the road. I use OPKs and chart my temp to keep an eye on my cycles. I guess what im saying is that, as far as I'm aware, we are doing everything in our power to increase our chances.

I really hope you will get your baby at the end of this. You really have had to endure such a journey and any child of yours would be much loved.

keziah thanks for your comments too.

DH morphology is only 2.5% so our numbers game is reduced significantly from the average. He'll have the pleasure of providing more samples and his GP is considering about sending him to a urologist if the results don't improve. Despite this, I'm happy to complete the initial testing with NHS as on the face of it, I'm ok. My period are regular, I don't have any mid-cycle bleeding, I've had two negative FSH tests at home (my gynea didn't know you had such home tests!) and I have a clear LH surge each month, followed by a clear temp rise. I'm waiting to complete all the tests you mentioned in the next couple of months following my gynea visit last week. He also did an internal at my request and although he found a polyp on my cervix, everything else was ok and he seemed happy.

please don't think you were trying to teach a grandma to suck eggs, it's encouraging to hear from others that we are getting the correct support.

We don't qualify for NHS, but I'm not sure I would be happy to sit and wait on the NHS waiting lists anyway. And whilst I'm not entirely happy about possibly having to fork out such large sums of money for this, I'll just be happy that such an option even exists!

lissy blimey, I hadn't realised it was THAT intense. No wonder you need to be in good physical condition to put your body through all that. Interesting about you having the option of doing some of the tests with your GP. My GP has a special interest in all things fertility, so I'll run that past him,as I suspect he'd be quite keen to follow our journey. Glad your AF arrived!

Anyway, I'm ahead of myself. I shall make some enquiries like you suggest.

Lissy my DH had 2% morphology too. I forcefed him supplements (Fertility Plus for Men) and a fatty acid supplement. About 3 months later it has increased to 14%, well within the normal range. From your message, it sounds like you've got it covered anyway, but thought I'd put my bit of fertility advice in as well