We got our results - good and bad news

[Greeneyesbigbottom]

Had appt at the hospital just before Christmas where we told all is fine (except slightly low morphology).

I've been given a prescription for Clomid and told to start taking on Day 2 then ring to arrange a scan for days 12-15.

All exciting - except we were told we are not entitled to any NHS treatment as DH already has children from a previous relationship.

I was advised that the prescription cost for the Clomid can vary apparently, the scan will cost £110 (I assume every month?) then we would need ICSI due to the slightly low morphology if we were to proceed further and the clomid fails.

We just cant afford to go any further than Clomid so this is our only chance.

Excited to be starting some treatment, but its going to be so hard, knowing this is it.

Has anyone got any experience, or can provide some advice re appealing the decision regarding NHS treatment?

Thanks

hi greeneyesbigbottom
oh my gosh thats realy bad sorry havent been in that situation as im not taking clomid
thats bloody bad excuse my french lol
no thats just sickening
the government pays for others to have benefits etc dont that make you sick thats how bad the country is at mo and its going to get worse
theres alcoholics that spunk all there income support on booze etc and you cant even get help for something worth while its so not fair seeing this has made my blood boil
i wonder if anyone agrees with me ?????
nhs stinks
also icant believe it because your other half has got a kid already
did you have to tell them ???
or did they know already or ?
i dont understand how all this works but gosh but you cannot have it on nhs
while people get there methodone for nowt on hns
arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
sorry moan over i prob havent helped but i have had a shout for you
i shouldnt of said nowt about stuff but the thing is the world is in a right mess they need to get priorties straight

sorry if ihave offended anyone as dont want to cause no grief on here as this site does help me xand other ladies through difficult times
thnaks ladies x

IVF treatment is very expensive, the NHS cannot afford to provide it for everybody who wants it. Therefore they need to impose strict criteria to keep the numbers down.

worththewait, I don't get your arguments. Are you suggesting the government stop Income Support for alcoholics and Methadone for drug addicts and divert the saved money into IVF?

Greeneyesbigbottom, just be grateful you are getting some help, even though it's not much. We just did an IVF cycle in the US and it cost us $50,000... and it didn't work.

hi no i didnt mean it like that i was saying its a waste where the nhs could be a better nhs for everyone x
look ididnt want no grief and that what i have said in my statement above ok
country needs to sort it self out
oh i for got if you live in the states everyone you have medical insurance cover you have to pay your own medical
where as we have nhs for most things
say if your a american cictizen you have to pay for your hospital etc
me and other half were going to live in orlando as we go there all time but need to have this and that
and if you havent got a business you have to pay a one off fee to live in the country and not go home for a year
as they think you might skive the country with money you have made out there
strict rules
should be here too

k12 mom and by the way i said i didnt want no grief
why do ladies on here get so much grief for saying what they think
you didnt read my second post did you i said i didnt want no grief for exposing my feelings and feeling really upset for the poor woman greeneyes

Has the Clomid been given to you because you require it, or because it's protocol?

Not sure of your age etc, but the FC I am with offers egg share. Not sure how you would feel about that? Where I am it reduces the cost to £665 for an ICSI / IVF cycle, if you are suitable. I understand egg share is a contentious issue, but is it an option if you wanted to consider it?

Sadly the NHS is a postcode lottery. Infertility Network UK might be a good place to start for further information about available funding and how to appeal. www.infertilitynetworkuk.com/?id=5216

Actually worththewait, I'm English, but living in Dubai and doing IVF in the US. Confusing, I know!

I understand your sense of frustration, but the NHS has to draw the line somewhere. They just simply don't have the funds to treat everybody.

Greeneyesbigbottom, may I ask how old you are? I only ask because an appeal to the NHS could take years, and the longer you leave it, the less chance you have for conceiving. There are supplements that guys can take to improve their sperm. Have you been told about these?

Greeneyes You can find some template PCT appeal letters on the site I linked above. Here's the page. You need to scroll to the bottom.

www.infertilitynetworkuk.com/?id=5228

Hope this helps. Good luck

hi to k12 ilove dubai
ibeen there once about 12 yr ago before they made everywhere skyscrapers
we stayed in ritz carlton there
lovely but they were building then we have original pics of that hotel now look at it
skyscrapers right at the back of it
its good what knackered cow said idint realise you can do egg share all these marvellous ways of helping people etc x
may i ask why your haivng ivf in us
its prob better than dubai technology i dont know im just asuming lol
anyways im glad that k12 and knackered cow can be of help !!!!!!!!

Hi,

I'm 37 which unfortunately means I'm too old for egg share.

I do totally understand that the NHS has limited funding, but the fact that we cant get any help at all is difficult to understand. I am however very grateful that we did manage to see a consultant (although not our local hospital as they currently offer no fertility treatment).

Maybe we were too honest in telling the consultant about his children (who by the way do not live with us and we hardly see).

We have been trying for over 2 years now. As the blood tests and SA came back ok the next step is clomid. I can ask more questions when I go for my scan - we were just so relieved at the last appt that we didnt ask many questions.

K12Mom could you tell me which supplements he should take?

So sorry to hear that you're unable to afford IVF, stinks doesn't it? I would agree that you need to try and look at other lifestyle issues for both of you too, esp your partner.

You can try appealing but in this current climate I don't fancy your chances . DS1 was conceived as a result of 3 cycles of IVF so I know how bloody tough it is.

Have you looked at the Zita West site? Would you be able to afford an appt there? They can advise you on supplements.

At 37 Greeneyesbigbottom you really do need to get a move on. Maybe skip the supplements and go straight for ICSI? The point about ICSI is they choose the best looking sperm and inject them straight into the egg, so sperm issues are less relevant.

Is there no way you could get a bank loan to cover it? Please do not put it off. We did, and now we need to use an egg donor.

By the way worththewait, sorry if I upset you, I have sent you a PM.

sent a pm too hun
i didnt mean to offend anyone
xim just peed off as women need ivf and some get it some dont
it should be open to everyone free x
sorry x

I think the annoying thing in the UK is that options for treatment are variable, depending on where you live and what your PCT funds.

If the NHS really can't afford to fund fertility treatments, then they shouldn't fund any full stop.

Instead we are left with the ludicrous situation in which some women will get three funded cycles, and some will get none AND the exclusion criteria differ between PCTs

Where I live, greeneyes would get funding as the criteria is one cycle of IVF/ICSI per woman (which they try after up to 6 cycles of stimulated IUI) and the exclusion is children from a previous relationship currently living with the couple. As greeneyes has said, her DH already has children but they don't live with them. If she lived where I live, then she would be funded. That is what is so unfair. Surely the NHS should treat everybody equally?

I do agree that the same should be offered to all, whether it be fully funded or not. The criteria should be agreed and set nationally.

I'm slowly coming to terms with the fact that if the clomid doesnt work then we will have to deal with just trying and seeing what happens... but as you say I need to get a move on!

Having one of my more optimistic and hopeful days but I'm 2ww'ing!

op - it seems odd to me that you have been told to take chlomid and then told you will have to go through icsi if you do not fall pg on chlomid.

Chlomid is usually prescribed to women who have issues with ovulation - if the issue is with your dh's sperm then I'm sorry to say that chlomid is not going to help you fall pregnant and is just going to add to your expense.

Likewise if you are being advised to have icsi it sounds as if your dh has somewhat more than just "slightly low morphology", as icsi is the lesser used IVF type due to the fact it has a lower success rate and is much more expensive.

I'm not a fertility expert, but a lot of what you appear to have been told doesn't make sense, and I would be inclined to seek a second opinion before proceeding.

I took Clomid privately. At Boots, the prescription for two months cost £5.50 so I don't think you need to worry about the cost of the drugs! I was shocked that the cost was lower than if I'd had an NHS prescription fee to pay.

I'm assuming the slightly low morphology means exactly that - slightly low? And that combined with your husband's success in previously getting someone pregnant, they're assuming that you are probably fine.

Agree with Wannebe though on why Clomid? Is it definitely because you're not ovulating? if that's true, then it's the best treatment for first step.

However, I would say that scan on day 12 seems a bit late. I took Clomid day 2-6 and ovulated on day 12 so if you only get the scan then or even later, you might miss it. I would advice doing some enthusiastic BD from at least day 10 just to be on the safe side!

WannaBe Clomid is standard first line protocol in a lot of NHS fertility clinics, I believe. It's a cheap drug. Yesterday I had an appointment at my FC and was told if my HSG is clear, then they will prescribe 6 months of Clomid even though they have confirmed that I am ovulating. I questioned this but was told it's standard procedure before looking at IUI / IVF for unexplained infertility.

Agree with you though wannaBe slightly low morphology is not normally the criteria for ICSI.

Greeneyes As your DH has a child already and he simply has slightly low morphology, is there any reason why they can't simply look at IUI first? It's cheaper than ICSI and it may just work. Bypassing the cervix is sometimes successful especially where infertility is unexpalined.

Do you mind me asking what your DH's morphology was and whether they used the Kruger strict criteria, which is indicative of whether IVF / ICSI will be successful?

Hi,

I was told its standard protocol for the clinic before proceeding to IVF.

She mentioned ICSI only whilst discussing the DH sample results. She said morphology was 7% and the current standard for normal is 15% but then another more advanced test was done which she said was normal? Maybe I should have asked for a printed copy?

I'm glad to hear the prescription is cheaper though!

My HSG was clear btw. I have just double checked my appt card and it definitely says Days 12-15 for scan??? I'll give them a ring to double check this though.

I will mention IUI when I next go.

Looks like they have used the Kruger Strict criteria. Under the Old WHO and 2004 NICE guidelines 15% was the reference value for low morphology BUT under the 2010 WHO guidelines the lower reference value has been revised down to just 4% for normal.

Carefertility uses 5% as being the cut off of normal

My DH's morphology was 13.5% and he was given the all clear. That's lower than the 15% you've been quoted.

I wonder if your centre is using the out of date guidelines?

ah now see again that differs depending on where you go - I know people who have been told that ivf is their only option and chlomis was never offered as a first step.

Actually think it is very unfair that the government pay for children who were conceived on benefit yet won't help a childless women have ivf.

Surely the Human rights act that states everyone is entitled to a family life should be applied in both cases.

I was on clomid from day 2-6 and told to be scanned from 12-14. Arranged it for day 12 and based on the 20mm follicle, when the FC saw me end of the month he thought I'd ov'd on day 13. So although they say between day 12-15, I'd suggest going for the day 12!

Also, my DH has poor morphology and count (I also have PCOS, which is why we're trying clomid first) and FC said that they would need to "prepare" the sperm before making the decision on IVF or ICSI. He described it as putting the sperm through an obstacle course. Depending on amount at end determined action. So probably more tests should be done before a decision made.

However, he was of the opinion that ICSI is more successful than IVF, but has increased complications.