Agnus Castus

[ALovelyBunchOfCoconuts]

Looking for some advice regarding Agnus Castus. There have probably been many threads about this before but I have been thinking about taking it for a few months now but not sure if it will do any good.

Bit of background (I have posted about my gynae probs before):

I have a 2.7 DD and have had two mcs previously. We are TTC DC2, came off the pill in Feb I think, but I haven't had a period since June. cycles previous to june's were up to 50 days long. I have had many blood tests and all have been normal. Have just had a prolactin test, still awaiting results. Have had swabs done to rule out infection and I'm having a pelvic scan next week.

I have read that AC can kickstart periods that have stopped and there are many positive case studies to show that it has helped women conceive (or perhaps these are purely coincidence)

My theory is, I have nothing to lose, might as well give it a go, unless some of you have any horror stories. It can't possibly mess up my cycle any more than it already is!

Are there any other things I can try to re start my periods as I still have a couple of months before GP will refer us to the fertility docs.

TIA xx

Hi ALBOC

Sorry, haven't seen your previous threads, have you been diagnosed with PCOS? If so, metformin might do the trick. And, if you're overweight, losing some weight may be helpful - it certainly worked for me.

I took agnus castus and never had any joy with it. But I know lots of people have had good results.

I think some people are diagnosed Provera to bring on a period, although it won't do anything about your cycles, will that be any good?

One thing that has really really worked for me is soy isoflavones - see here:

www.twoweekwait.com/newsletter/2006-01/

However, you can only take it at the beginning of your cycle - if you start now, it will probably make matters worse.

HTH a bit.

Thank you for your speedy reply

No I haven't been diagnosed with anything which is why I feel like I'm going in circles. Everytime I go back to the GP they find another blood test I could have done that they didn't do before.

I have no idea where my cycle is at, I'm not overly overweight. Could do with losing a few lbs but nothing major. I'm 5' 8" and 11 stone think that's within normal. Never suffered from spots or anything like that, never any PMS.

I have done so much research into Clomid, Metformin, AC, losing weight, diet, periods, ovulation but the doctor just thinks I'm stupid for looking things up myself. And because we haven't been TTC for a year yet they say we just have to wait. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be waiting for.

After 6 months of no periods I can be referred for anovulation to a gynae that will be December time. Which isnt far away so just thought a bit of AC can't do any harm.

I have never heard of Provera, and will look at your link now :)

Back to google...

The Soy sounds good but like you say, it is like Clomid and must be taken at the beginning of the cycle.

Damn my body!

Is the Provera only available on prescription?

Hmm, not sure re provera but I think so...

Well you should definitely try the agnus castus, it may do wonders. (You mustn't take it when pg though so it may be worth doing a test, you never know :))

Some people swear by acupuncture/reflexology, that might be doable.

Can't think of anything else right now!

I would be dubious buying tablets online. Don't know what I'm looking for to ensure things are genuine [thicko emoticon]

I did a test a week ago for my last GP visit so she could refer for this scan next week so definitely not pregnant :(

Have always thought about acupuncture too but I'm a little unsure regarding needles hanging off me so that might be for desperate times!

I will get myself to H&B for the AC, you never know it may be my miracle cure!

Thanks for your advice Lucy, you've been a great help. I will ention the Provera to the GP at my next visit, which I doubt will be far away!

I havent tried AC but I have a bottle in my cupboard as I got to your position a while ago where I thought there was nothing left to use.

I can say from having read loads about it that many people report feeling very depressed using it, so keep an eye on how you are feeling and stop using it if you get severe symptoms.

The other thing I think is important is that it is much better that you get a proper medical diagnosis for your problem, because its not normal to have such irregular periods. Taking AC might just stop you getting to the route of the problem, and even if you use it as a stop gap, you wont be able to accurately report how your cycles have been when you go for your next appointment.

Not having periods can be a hormonal problem, or a structural one (scar tissue on the uterus for example) Hormonal issues are normally looked at first.

To rule out the hormonal problems you need blood tests taken on Day 2 of your cycle to check your FSH level to see if your ovarian reserve is OK (that you are not premenapausal) and to compare your LH and FSH levels. A 3:1 ratio would indicate PCOS which would explain long cycles. If you have very long cycles obviously doing the test on the correct day is difficult, so repeating the tests is very important (if they were not done correctly and came back "fine" you cant really trust the results) Ask for a copy of the results and compare them here www.fertilityplus.org/faq/hormonelevels.html#female

Fight to get to see a gynecologist asap as GP's really know nothing about any of this. Fibbing about how long you have been TTC and missing periods isnt a crime in my book

I understand how frustrating it is waiting with no answers, if you really want to do something proactive to find out what is going on in your body, I would suggest you get a copy of Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Weschler. You will learn loads about what is normal and what is not and it will help you ask the doctor and gynecologist the right questions. If you try charting (taking your temperature everyday) you may find out if you are ovulating or not during these long cycles.

hope you get some answers soon,

xxx

Mummyabroad, I know it isn't normal, that's what annoys me. The doctor turned round and said once that I may be "of life's infrequent ovulators"

I don't understand why they don't seem to take things seriously.

I have seen three different GPs to see if they give a different opinion and on the third one I get referred for a scan. They were meant to have my prolactin result back by now and haven't and the same for the sexual health test.

I have just called the doctor to request a copy of my results and they aren't allowed to send them to me

Hopefully the scan on the 9th may shed some light. I'm almost hoping it shows something abnormal so then something may actually be done to help.

I've even had the snooty comment from one GP that I already have one DC so its a bit selfish to just expect to have a second. Suffice to say I didn't go back to that one

I will pop to amazon to look up that book.

Regardig the body temperature what changes should I be looking for? When should i do it?

Thank you for your advice it's been a great help.

Hi coconuts,

I am having much the same trouble with you with the doctors and I am paying private! (I live in Costa Rica and the public health system is far worse than the NHS) I am starting to request myself the tests that I think will be helpful as the gynes I keep seeing only really want to find hormonal problems (but they cant) I havent had a period in 7 months following a very complicated mc where nothing happened as they said it would. I am worried that I got Ashermans Syndrome after the birth of DS two years ago and this caused the mc.

This is quite scary reading/watching but it might be relevant to you too (apologies if you have seen this already)
more info here

Charting has helped me work out that I am ovulating and getting period pain when I should be bleeding so this to me suggests a structural not hormonal problem.

To start charting you need to get a basal themometer (about 6 quid on Amazon or 20 quid in the larger boots stores, pregnancy section) You take your temperature every morning as soon as you wake up (before moving or getting up to pee) and plot it in a graph. Interpreting the graph is dead easy if you put your data in www.fertilityfriend.com. This site also has a great fertility course that you can sign up for, they send you a lesson everyday to your inbox.

at your snooty GP, I've met a few of those too. I got told that I shouldnt be worrying because I am "only" 35 and have plenty of time presumable she thinks she has 5 or so years to work out what the diagnosis is...

xxx

THE LINKS YOU HAVE PROVIDED ARE VERY INTERESTING. oops caps sorry. AS could be a possibility as I have had an ERPC.

My very long and colourful gynae history started when I was 18 (five years ago) and had a complete mc at 13 weeks. After that I developed PID, underwent so many tests, scans and swabs and examinations and my consultant told me he suspected endometriosis and wanted to do a laparoscopy. He told me that he doubt I would ever have any children but "if i got pregnant my problems will go away"

Anyway in the meantime I fell pregnant again and had a missed mc at 10weeks but foetus was only 7weeks. They were concerned that I had a heliotropic (sp?) pregnancy (a second baby growing in my ovary) but it turned out to be a cyst. Had ERPC and fell pregnant again with DD on the first cycle after the ERPC.

Appointment for the laparoscopy came through but I couldn't go due to the pregnancy. Gave birth successfully and had no more problems till I came back off the pill to TTC DC2 back in Feb/March time. Long cycles of 30+ - 60+ days leading to last period in June. In the last two months I have been having pain on my right side during intercourse and also have a swelling/fullness on my right side, hence the scan.

I suppose I'm "lucky" in that I'm only 23 so have age on my side but 35 is not exactly over the hill is it.

By the state of my GPs it has taken over 5 years and I've got nowhere.

i will look up the basal thermometer thing. i have never heard of it but will be interesting to know if I am actually ovulating and not bleeding.

On the positive side I'm so pleased to 'speak' to someone having the same problems.

Sometimes I just wish I could open myself up and give everything a bit of a nudge :)

xx

Gosh you have been through the mill.

I found that book TCOYF really empowering as it explained so much about how my body worked that I was completely oblivious to before. Of course, it hasnt cured my problem, but it helped identify where exactly things were going wrong has made it easier for me to argue with discuss the issues with doctors.

I have also had lots of great info and support from the lovely women on these two threads.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/miscarriage/1006439-Recurrent-Buns-Miscarriage-Testing-and-Beyond

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conception/1065214-Just-MC-and-ready-to-try-again-Pack-your-cake

MC and TTC again after can be such a lonely experience, its definitely been easier since I found other women going through the same sort of things. Come and join us anytime if you feel like it.

I'm glad you are getting scanned soon, that should give you some answers. For what its worth, I really think you should not take Agnus Castus for the moment as it may mask the real problem and make it more difficult to get a diagnosis. Taking into account you have had a cyst before, you now have pain which could be caused by another cyst AND you successfully gave birth after your ERPC/MCs then it would seem that a hormonal problem is more likely than a structural one. If you charted and found that your are NOT ovulating or not very regularly this would also point to a hormonal problem.

I know you want to have regular cycles again, but its much better to find out what is causing the irregularity in the first place.

let me know how you get on,

xxx

You speak alot of sense. :)

I have this feeling though that the scan is going to show nothing and I'll look like I've made it all up and that there can't possibly be a problem.

I will mooch over and have a look at those threads you have provided. :)

Are you originally from Costa Rica? If you are having trouble with the doctors over there could you possibly come to England for some tests? Not that the doctors here are much better!

Are you TTC DC1 or have you already had a successful pregnancy?

xx

Hi,

you can get good info from scans even if they say everything is "normal" good questions to ask are:

"what kind of problems can you or cant you see on a a scan?"

"can you tell if i am ovulating?" during my scan the sonographer told me he could see pockets of liquid that indicated I had ovulated

"how thick is my womb lining?" - if the test is post ovulation when then lining is thickening it should be at least 8mm - mine is only 3 which indicates a problem (3 is OK at the beginning of your cycle though)

"Are my ovaries the right size?", are there any cysts? Ovaries sometimes enlarge or shrink when there are problems.

I'm English (from London) and my husband is Costa Rican. We have one DS who has duel nationality. I'm definitely considering coming back for treatment if i have AS, but will probably have to pay private. So far I have found out that it is ludicrously expensive, but if i only have a mild case and only need one treatement its something that we will consider. On the other hand if there is really extensive damage I will need more than one operation and that would be impossible to do privately. I'm trying to get as much done as possible over here first because its cheaper.

I have just joined this international group for Ashermans Sufferers on (www.ashermans.org) and got excellent info about doctors, prices etc. I am going to give one a call on Monday and see if a trip to England would even be possible.

xxxx

I hope the information you find out on Monday helps you to decide. I wish money wasn't a problem for us as I would definitely consider some private treatment but it is not a viable option unfortunately. I did read that the treatment for AS can be quite extensive and require many operations. Do you think you'll be able to reach a definite diagnosis whilst over in CR?

I will note your questions down and definitely make sure I ask them. I never know what to ask or what the answers they give indicate but Google and MN are fast becoming my best friend in all this so hopefully I can come away with some sort of information.

I have been to the department I am going to before and asked some questions and they have said that information can't be disclosed to the patient, it all has to be passed to the GP first. Lets hope I get a nice sonographer :)

I have posted a message over on the thread you suggested and am getting lots of info from reading other ladies experiences so thank you very much for pointing me in that direction, you've been a great help :)

I took Agnus Castus for about 9 months and got pregnant very easily. I used it in a liquid form (tincture without any additives) called Mastodynon (sold in Germany over the counter or can be ordered online). It was really helpful. I'd say definitely give it a try, it won't do any harm. It promotes gynacological health and is also very beneficial for people suffereing from cysts in breasts/uterus/ovaries. There are many success stories when cysts got smaller after AC. The downside is that like with all herbs, it takes a very very long time to see any results. Good luck!

Hi thanks for your reply lilly

I have bought some but decided to wait until after my scan just incase they alter anything ans i don't get a true result :)

Good luck coconuts

Coconuts, I recall now that my doctor told me that it would take at least 6 months to see any results. Definitely, try it when you are ready, however, be very very patient...

I suppose the decision about taking herbs should be based on how quickly one wants to see results... Herbs are less effective than medicine and unfortunately do not work for everyone. That's something to keep in mind. I was very pleased with the outcome, however, I would have been very sad and angry if I spent 9 months and nothing would have changed... I took about 60 droplets of tincture per day.

I hope AC works well for you!