Labour’s plans to build thousands of new homes

[dnac]

Anyone else feeling dismayed at the plans announced today to build huge numbers of new homes on the “grey” belt? Why not just concrete over the UK? It’s not just the homes, it’s the infrastructure that will need to go with it that will almost certainly involve cutting down trees, spoiling natural habitats and losing more green space. Plus the boundary between grey and geeen belt will blur over time. Why can’t we put more effort into refurbishing existing properties (or just rebuilding on the same sites?). So much for refreshing, positive ideas from the new administration. Just more of the same ill thought out sound bites that make me despair for the future of the planet.

Most new build houses are small already. “Executive home” is just marketing speak that means “not a complete fleapit.” See also, “luxury flat.”

Farmers are quitting. Without EU subsidies only certain kinds of farming pay. I see a lot of farmland around me unplanted since last year.

One thing I have heard is that some of the recent wave of economic activity among 50-somethings is to do with inheritance. Some of the first waves of the baby boom are shuffling off the mortal coil and leaving money to 50-something adult children, whose kids are also leaving home. People feel quite comfortable all of a sudden, clear the mortgage and decide to take early retirement.

I agree that more flexible working and so on would also help, though.

@GreenTeaLikesMe That was the assumption, but research shows it is those who are not well off who are quitting. Like my colleague a few years ago, and me by the end of the year. I am lower paid and like my colleague and have had enough of how employers treat lower wage employees. Nowhere is great. Life is too short and I have had enough. Like my colleague I will live on a very low income when I retire and will do occasional work to boost income. I have another friend who does this and works about 2 days a month stewarding for events.
You want people like us back? Stop treating lower paid employees like shit.

I am not sure that's true anymore. I think i read that John Lewis are getting into building residential units, or maybe they've stopped that plan.

I agree and whilst I am not on a lower wage nor will I get huge inheritance, I am however 10yrs away from paying off my mortgage and once I'm done I'll be massively cutting back my work because quite frankly it just isn't worth it to work and have what you work for taken off you to keep on subsiding everyone else. I'd rather have a stress free life enjoying what I love to do and only needing to work what I need to make enough to cover my outgoings. There is no incentive to save lots of money when you will be penalised for doing so

Less than 8% of land is urbanised so we're not quite at the point where we are living in a concrete jungle. The UK has an issue with NIMBY groups blocking both housing and transport (Northern HS2 leg) improvements and developments.
So I'm in favour of building and infrastructure projects.

@Missamyp

I agree it's a complete myth that the UK is some kind of concrete jungle:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41901297.amp

Clearly most people spend most of their time living and working in built up areas and traveling by road so naturally assume that the UK is urban.

@Missamyp It isn't a case of thinking we live in an urban jungle.

The issues are :
1.lack of water. The South of England is severely stretched to provide water for the local population now. More houses require more water.

2.being able to feed ourselves. If we have a food crisis, which is not unlikely given the situation in Ukraine, and the growing impact of climate change, we will be very hard pushed to feed everyone. If people thought the fuel crisis was tough, they won't cope with being short of food So keeping development away from agricultural land is essential.

The countryside isn't a pretty place for wealthy retirees. It's one huge factory that feeds us all. We badly need a govt that understands that.

Yes there's no Basic payment scheme money any more. This used to pay around £230 per ha for simply owning land (and keeping in good condition).
It was basically a benefit. Large landowners could be paid a few million a year for nothing. It did however really help the poorer hill farmers and tenants on more marginal land.
No doubt we will see lots of land for sale, developers will be happy!

Yes totally agree. I would give up work tomorrow if I was a bit nearer retirement age and just do temping. If I hate it then I can just move on.

Honestly if you have your mortgage paid off and are not used to not having much money, you can live very cheaply.

All the local brownfield is full of new builds.
The green space is being covered in warehousing.

Brownfield is more expensive and someone will have to clean the land if it's to be built on.
Give a complaint free process for planning and greenbelt will be built on.

Yes thankfully mine is now paid after years of overpaying. Lived quite frugally to do so though, second hand clothes and old car so used to it.

Not here. Anything unplanted here is because it pissed down all through the ploughing and planting season.

So much farmland is going for housing. It's shit for our food security.

By ‘get off my arse’ it mean it was more of a mindset switch. More a ‘Im going to have to do this myself and I will do it’ ethos than previously before it was a ‘It’s impossible for me to buy a house’ ethos.

I’m not trying to tar anyone with any brush. I’m trying to tell pp that they are young, they have time and if this is their goal; they will get there. If they haven’t done a decision in principal then they haven’t even started looking at whether they can or cannot buy a house. They have just made the assumption.

How I did it? Found out how much someone would lend us then shopped around all the midlands until I found somewhere we could afford and then saved the deposit by putting everything into that goal. Selling everything on eBay. Taking extra shifts. Starting side hustles for evening and weekends. Cancelling nearly all but absolute essential expenditure. It wasn’t pretty - the 18 months or the house. But once you’re on the ladder things become a lot easier.

You might think I’m criticising people. I’m really not. Some people are genuinely unlucky. They have health problems, or employment challenges or caring responsibilities that mean they can’t break out of a cycle. But most young people can buy a house. They have just been brain washed in the early years when they have low expenses, can be footloose, take risks, move areas into thinking they can’t. So they don’t look at until it’s too late.

It’s the biggest injustice of our time. A can do attitude goes a hell of a long way and it’s something we should be encouraging. Not agreeing that they are fucked for life. Because how’s that going to help?

Thames water supplies 15 million people. They announced this week that they'll need government money to upgrade Victorian sewage systems. It's gonna hurt financially.

@justasking111
The private water companies have been taking profits instead of investing in new infrastructure. Criminal.

Well it's too late now between the sewage leaks and them drawing water out of rivers thus drying up river beds, they've not got the billions that they need.

@Missamyp

"The issues are :
1.lack of water. The South of England is severely stretched to provide water for the local population now. More houses require more water.

2.being able to feed ourselves. If we have a food crisis, which is not unlikely given the situation in Ukraine, and the growing impact of climate change, we will be very hard pushed to feed everyone. If people thought the fuel crisis was tough, they won't cope with being short of food So keeping development away from agricultural land is essential.

The countryside isn't a pretty place for wealthy retirees. It's one huge factory that feeds us all. We badly need a govt that understands that."

1. there isn't any lack of water instead there is a lack of storage ( where planning rules have restricted more reservoirs) and a decades of under investment by water companies into Victorian era sewerage systems.

2. Food - the UK imports 46% of its food requirements, the 54% it does produce are things like dairy, eggs, wheat and milk. If that slipped to 50 / 50 then it would free up more than enough land for all the houses the UK will ever need. Plus by importing an additional 4% of food from developing countries then the UK would be giving them "trade and not aid".

I agree that the countryside is indeed not just a pretty place for retirees. But unless taxpayers are willing to subsidise farmers to just keep it green then you can't blame farmers for wanting to sell it on for housing etc because farming really really doesn't pay for itself post Brexit.

One thing: A lot of discussion on this thread has focused on "building on carparks/industrial sites" vs "building on green fields," but there is another thing that will be massive: densifying existing suburbs.

So, changing planning permission laws to make it easier for someone to knock down a house and replace it with a small apartment block (say, up to six storeys), or add an apartment to the top of a building with a mansard roof, and things like that.

(Before the panickers start panicking, we are talking about changing planning laws so that people can CHOOSE to do the above. Not government troops throwing you out of your home, bulldozing it and building something else there)

Yes I do think that taking the existing untold miles of terrace and adding an extra three stories would have big potential gains in housing space for zero additional footprint.

Huge amounts of square footage has been added in recent decades through loft conversions but existing planning laws work on a fairly arbitrary restrictive basis.

It's not difficult here to knock down big old empty properties, or turn them into apartments planning permission wise. You still get a shared garden. We've a few empty nursing homes and ex school boarding houses up for sale on a rolling basis in nice grounds.

Oh definitely, I mean people do do this already. It's tricky in many places though, because the UK does not have a zoning system (I think it's the only G7 country that does not) and instead has a discretionary system, which means that there is a lack of clear rules and it tends to be easy for projects to be vetoed by other members of the community complaining and so on.

The stuff I've read about suggests that there will be a move towards some kind of zoning system that is like "This area is a "A" zone, meaning that as long as a redevelopment ticks boxes X, Y and Z, it can basically be approved automatically, without others being able to stop this."

I'd like to see some redevelopment of a lot of terraced areas, though I confess I don't know exactly how this works with buildings that share walls in the way that terraces do.

The odd good idea didn't negate all the crazy stuff!