Climate change.....it's too late to stop it, isn't it ?

[Banquosfeast]

How long have we been hearing the message to reduce CO2 emissions ? At least 30 years, (Mrs Thatcher the first UK politician to raise with subject, with her 1989 UN speech). Climate change has already happened, as is clear from weather reports from around the world. The rise in global temperatures that have already occurred, irreversible, and will get worse.

Yet, still nobody changes their personal behaviour....at all !

Just today I've witnessed, 1) someone sitting in their car, drinking a coffee.....engine running. 2) twenty people leaving a yoga class, and the room empty.....not one thinks to turn off the lights. 3) at the gym, air-conditioning blasting away....with the windows open ! 4) on the motorway, well it's the Wacky Races out there - nobody driving, as it they are trying to limit their vehicle's CO2 emissions; quite the opposite in fact.

Let's be honest, it's too late.

Yep, it really is.

I was thinking the same myself

I really worry about any grandchildren I may have their future

Ironic really. Just as people are beginning to wake up to the reality of what's going to happen, it's probably past the point of no return now...

Yes, it's too late.

Most of us are guilty of planet-damaging habits, whether it's eating meat, flying on holiday, leaving lights or heating on (in fact, having lights and heating at all!).

There's little incentive to do anything as an individual, other than to stop the guilt - for those who feel any in the first place. If I gave up the car right now it would make next to no difference. If I don't fly on holiday, that would have a miniscule effect amonsgst all the other people flying.

In fact if I ceased to exist altogther, the planet as we know it would keep going for what, a fraction of a nanosecond longer?

We’ve been hearing the message since the 1960s and have been reducing CO2 since the 1990s. I don’t agree about no one changing personal behaviour, billions of us have done so.

Climate change is a constant. So, no it cannot be stopped. What we are working to reverse is that part of climate change that has been caused by humans. The temperature increases are largely due to the emissions of half a century ago. Climate change is extremely slow when measured against a human life span, even though the human caused climate change we are seeing is extremely fast compared to the natural rate of climate change that is measured in tens of thousands of years.

It’s not too late at all. We have reversed bigger climate change threats in the past like the hole in the ozone layer. We can reverse this too. The actions we take today will benefit our grandchildren.

Just saw this... novel idea I guess .

Rent clothes when you fly

It's clearly too late to avoid some climate change, we've already got about 1 degree of warming.

It's not too late to avoid much worse climate change. Limiting to 1.5 degrees is going to be tough by this point, but might be possible. Unless we're v unlucky, we should be able to avoid more than 2 degrees, if we get our act together. It certainly should be possible to avoid more than 3 degrees.

The projected impacts get worse and worse and WORSE as the temperatures get higher. It's definitely still worth making an effort to keep things lower, even if we can't avoid some impacts.

It's been too late since the 1970s. The climate chaos we have now is the result of emissions from then. There is a massive lag time, so yes it is too late and the best you can do it educate your children on how to deal with the fall out.

Honestly, you cannot rely on personal behaviour to save this situation. And also many of the things you mention can be resolved with tech improvement such as lights timing out, engines off went not moving etc.

It needs to be vast CO2 emitting industries like building, farming, energy that need to make changes.

Someone flicking a switch off or drinking oat milk isn't going to solve climate change.

Idk hopefully not

The thing that worries me is my dc

I also wonder about the Gulf Stream issue and if that will impact us

Plus general defence as I reckon nations will need to boost that a fair bit

And keep reducing CO2 so our grandkids can feel the benefits.

The problem is that these modifiable behaviours like switching off the lights are tiny in impact compared with general every day living of 8 billion people (and the factories and power stations that support that).

There are just too many humans. What we really need is for the world population to drop. Instead it’s still forecast to increase to 10 billion before it levels off.

I completely agree.

But no one likes Just Stop Oil protests or Extinction Rebellion. It's sad but consensus is that small changes (turning off lights) isn't enough, instead we need radical change if we're going to stop the 1.5C increase the would be catastrophic for the planet. And by radical, they mean things like stop all use of the combustion engine from today. That isn't going to happen. (Example source https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-world-will-likely-miss-1-5-degrees-c-why-isnt-anyone-saying-so/ )Added to that, we (as UK society and "the West") are very anti migration, however we haven't stopped to think about forced migration due to climate change. It's a ticking time bomb. Not to mention vast parts of the UK coastal area under water due to sea level rise. I don't know why anyone would have a child now. This isn't 100 years away, it's 2050-2070. Yes we're past it, this is one of the reasons you see billionaires building bunkers - it sounds like a horrible conspiracy theory, but it isn't. (Example source https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/aug/18/century-climate-crisis-migration-why-we-need-plan-great-upheaval )(example source https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/sep/04/super-rich-prepper-bunkers-apocalypse-survival-richest-rushkoff )

Sorry but JSO and XR are utterly mental and batshit. They are harming the green movement far more than helping it. Bunch of deluded, bored, retirees reliving their anti-war student protest days imho.

We don’t need change any more radical than what we have been doing for decades and continue to do. They are eco-fascists and honestly they’re idiots.

Eg, their demands to stop drilling for oil are willfully obtuse. They are completely ignoring the fact that we need oil for thousands of non CO2 generating uses like medicines, lubricants, fertilisers, manufacturing and so on.

Yes it is probably already too late to restrict climate change to 1.5C but 2C is realistic and doable.

JSO and XR really don't help, and the Guardian has printed some of most alarmist rubbish I've ever read.

The truth is there is a lot individuals and small organizations can do, some is easy like turning off lights, but some such as applying for grants are pretty dull and take effort.

Fair enough. I know that lots don't like JSO and ER - that was kind of my point. People don't like them for many reasons. But these groups do highlight the need for radical change and they are putting pressure on governments to make change, and doing it in a viable way. There's a whole separate debate about the role of protest, the aims of protest and the right way to protest to create change (e.g. see sentiment re doctor and train strikes). But you're right, maybe people don't like them because of their method and extreme message. So I that.It's a sad fact that people don't want to make the radical changes that are necessary. Right now, there isn't a clear path to 2C, turning off lights, electric cars and one flight a year won't cut it.The guardian articles were just examples from a reputable source that is easily readable. There are many more examples online from many different sources. Failure to mitigate climate change and large scale migration are in the top 10 WEF risks for the next 2 and 10 years ( https://www.weforum.org/reports/global-risks-report-2023/digest/ ).Articles in the FT and NYP re billionaires bunkers, including mention of climate change. www.ft.com/content/c0ee992f-2fb8-4ae0-816f-bc849bf1b60bnypost.com/2022/09/24/how-the-worlds-billionaires-are-paying-to-escape-global-disaster/amp/

*doing it in a VISABLE way (not viable). Autocorrect

Wish I could edit, the formatting is terrible!

https://nypost.com/2022/09/24/how-the-worlds-billionaires-are-paying-to-escape-global-disaster/amp/

https://www.ft.com/content/c0ee992f-2fb8-4ae0-816f-bc849bf1b60b

There is no need for the sorts of radical changes XR and JSO are demanding. I don’t like them because they are harming the efforts of the real activists, scientists and politicians actually making a difference.

No one in XR or JSO has worked on green technology or funding global energy efficiency initiatives. Their methods are alienating the public support needed for any change…and yes we do need more changes. They cause this exact sense of omg, it’s hopeless, it’s too late, it can’t be done with their insistence that we have to have crazy stupid radical changes. They are harmful, not helpful.

Billionaires/millionaires have been building bunkers for literally centuries- there’s always a doomsday scenario in play and they always build these either individually or in enclaves.

Fair enough. I do understand your POV and I know it is one that many share.

Always glad to see @Daftasabroom on these threads 👋

Yes, it is late, but so much research is being done and progress being made that us regular folk don’t always get to hear about. I’ve just been reading about huge advances in geothermal energy, for example. It’s late, especially for 1.5C, but it might not be too late.

It's frustrating and in our household it's the younger members of the household that are the worst despite it going to be their generation and their kids that will be hardest hit. My ds will put the tumble dryer on on a sunny day, buys a litre bottle of bottled water daily, constant take-aways in a lot of packaging etc, lights constantly left on. It infuriates me, I'm constantly nagging.

Really agree with this. The change has to be organised and systemic and not on a patchwork of individual "opt in" actions. Our Parliament declared a climate emergency 4 years ago but we have seen no action from them that is commensurate with that emergency status.

The idea that we avert something this huge and catastrophic by persuading individual members of the public to reduce their own carbon footprints is mind-boggling: as a point of comparison, no modern country goes into war with an expectation that it can hen step back and just expect its populace to organise an army, weapons, defences etc amongst themselves.

We're long overdue leadership from the people we elect to look after us.
Re JSO/XR the efficacy of their/our approach is admittedly unproven but they/we are driven by an anger and desperation at the decades of inaction. Allied to this, there's a belief that, with comparatively little time left (and with less controversial methods over the past 30-40 years having been largely unsuccessful) nonviolent direct action is the best tool available to pressurise a better, proportionate response from our government and industries.

I'd just urge anyone here not to give up but to direct their fears into something positive to help push for systemic, large-scale change. There are a range of organisations out there so if you don't feel XR is for you (and I'd stress that it's activities are resolutely nonviolent) then find another that suits you and your approach. www.climate.network.org is a good starting point.

Excuse me, but how can you parrot “decades of inaction” and say that methods used thus far have been “largely unsuccessful” with a straight face?

That is not at all true. That is word for word XR and JSO eco-fascist propaganda.

Thank you @MrsPhyllisTyne .

Well put @ReleasetheCrackHen .

I have to say very many organisations are terrified of being accused of green washing so are really reluctant to put out positive stories.

Another factor is that much of the stuff needed to reduce emissions is actually really dull if you're not very STEM minded. The time spans to develop and introduce new technologies are way beyond most peoples everyday experiences.

Remember the job of the press and media is to make money, either from advertising or subscription. The first relies on dramatic headlines, the second on telling people what they want to hear.