We have a Climate Change topic - let's make it busy

[NotMeNoNo]

The last week or so has made lots of us think again about the Climate Emergency. How about we use the Climate change topic to collect all the threads on food, travel, heating, campaigning etc.

Climate Change is a many faceted issue and there are lots of discussions to be had. Rather than every time someone asks if they should recycle their breadbags or buy imported asparagus, people jump on and say "not worth me doing anything whilst China is still building coal fired power stations". Or how does it square up with poverty, or womens rights?

Let's at least have the debate and make sure women's voices are heard.

I think the trouble is that though pretty much everyone sees the need, but when it comes to actually giving up stuff, no one wants to

But the power of small changes, when added up over a large number of people, is worthwhile. Not the whole solution, but definitely part of the solution rather than an addition to the problem

People really do seem to want to believe nothing they do will make a difference, they are afraid they will be "ripped off" by giving up something unnecessarily. There are too many mixed messages out there as government and corporations want to pretend there's no problem and please carry on voting/consuming/spending as you were.

I try to do my bit, but admit I generally stick to the 'easy To do' rather than experience a bit of inconvenience.

And sometimes the messages can be difficult to sift - is all palm oil bad or is some better than the alternatives? Is bamboo good? What's the best way to recycle and how do we know if our councils waste policy is ethical etc etc.

So I'm afraid it's often easier to do little more than reduce tumble drying. 😞

Saying that, I do better then many people I know and monitor my carbon footprint. I'm always on the look out for ways to do better.

If everyone reduced their tumble drying, it would make a difference. But people seem to think it's a drop in the ocean difference, so why bother. Not seeing that added up over a whole population it does help.

And that hundreds of 'little' actions add up

If everyone in London uses 15 litres less water, that's a saving equivalent to the capacity of Rutland Water (Britain's second largest reservoir).

I had the very same conversation at work yesterday around individuals not seeing how they can make a difference if everyone does it together. There seems to be a general mindset among colleagues that only big businesses or groups can change things.

The Rutland Water comparison just proves it's worth making a tiny change yourself. 15 litres isn't much at all.

We're trying to make one change a month and stick to it. This month we've switched to an eco washing egg but I'm not 100% sure what I think of it just yet.

Are you getting in touch with people in China and India? Because until those countries reduce their emissions, nothing we can do is going to make the slightest overall difference.

actually I try very hard, use little water ( given up baths for a quick shower) , put on a jumper instead of the heating, only drive to the shops once a week - but that’s good for my conscience, in terms of ‘making a significant difference’ it’s zero.

What hurts me is the "little people" like me recycling, upcycling, reusing, buying second hand etc etc making my own life harder tbh and my entire lifetimes efforts being u done with one twelve minute flight on a private jet by some entitles celeb. It doesn't stop me doing my but but it pisses me off beyond belief

True, but then I see all the new developments with thousands of new flats and and wonder where the energy and water for all of them will come.

I think it's a good feeling, living out your own beliefs practically. Even if someone else still flies 10 mins down the road. Change is coming for everyone ultimately so I don't mind living a lot more modestly now. I've massively cut down on flying (work) but thinking of trying to give it up altogether- that is quite hard though 😬.

India and China are not one entity though and they are poorer countries than us. They could just as well say " when the rich UK and US stop flying and driving everywhere and consuming so much then we'll feel we should so our bit". Somehow individual behaviour and policy need to be aligned, like in Covid, then you see rapid change.

I've been using an eco egg for a couple of years. I find that it doesn't wash as good as a bio powder but it's ok for everyday washes. I use ecover powder for washes that include knickers and socks or anything particularly grubby. Eco egg for the rest. 80/20 feels like a fair compromise for me.

Thanks @Gazelda. We can't use bio washing powder as it irritates DH and DS' skin. I'm not sure if there's a big difference in bio/non-bio but I'm going to pinch your idea and use Ecover for those items that might need a bit of a stronger wash!

So we've done laundry, what do you think would be other relevant topics?
E.g is it worth getting an electric car?
Eating meat free
Helpful books/ podcasts
Sustainable home improvements etc

I like the idea of one change a month. Something achievable that can be adopted by the whole family as a change for life.

But on the topic of cars - mine is about 14 years old. I'm guessing it's better to keep this one going rather than renewing. So what driving tips has anyone got to help my carbon footprint?

I read somewhere that it's better to have the windows open rather than use air con. But isn't that less fuel efficient?

I presume I should avoid keeping the boot loaded up with heavy tat. And drive at a consistent speed as much as possible. And drive in the highest appropriate gear?

And obviously leave the car at home or car share as much as possible.

I was talking to a colleague who's role focus is achieving net zero and he said that buying a new electric car is much more damaging than buying a second hand petrol or diesel car due to the process of building the electric car. He did say he assumes that will change going forward as electric cars become the norm.

His recommendations re driving were where possible to drive at the optimum gear for your speed, when using the air con/heating to use the function that circulates air already in the car, and to open the window and have the air con speed on low until it reaches the temperature you want, and then to close the window and turn the air con speed up. He did say try to avoid lots of little journeys but I don't think that's always possible.

Linked to cars there's car washing - always wash your car using a bucket rather than a hosepipe/pressure washer to reduce water usage.

I was talking to a colleague who's role focus is achieving net zero and he said that buying a new electric car is much more damaging than buying a second hand petrol or diesel

True. Buying second hand is always the greener choice.
It's not because EVs are significantly more damaging in manufacture process than others - differences not that great and will reduce further.

The less new manufactured stuff the better. True of cars, true of everything.
But if you have to buy a new, then look at ongoing environmental fuel costs (use of oil, toxic emissions) and air quality.

What about buying a second hand electric car? There are a reasonable number around, Nissan Leaf etc.

I've heard second hand electrics are extortionately priced at the moment. But At least they're a better choice for the environment than a second hand petrol/diesel.

@Someaddedsugar rather worryingly your colleague needs to check his facts and revise on emissions scopes, lifecycle assessments and inventory boundaries. The Polestar Environmental Product Declaration (EPD) here shows the CO2 emissions of an electric car charged with renewable energy over 200,000km (124,000m) to be less than half that of one powered by internal combustion engine. The ICE emissions would overtake (sorry) a standard European electricity charged vehicle after approx 120,000km.

Equally @GlacindaTheTroll it shows that it is not always better to buy secondhand. If the functional unit is extended to a realistic 400,000km or 250,000 miles the difference is greater still.

I'll also add that electric vehicles are also produce zero particulate emissions which are not generally included in a carbon footprint yet are responsible for up to 40,000 deaths in the UK each year.

@Allthegoodnamesarechosen India's per capita emissions are 36% of the UK per capita emissions. If you look at consumption based emissions China is 9.8 tonnes, India is 1.76T and the UK is 7.7T CO2e.

So, even if charged with renewable energy, it takes 120000km (75k miles) before the EV wins out (due to increased carbon in manufacturing?). This is comparing similar new EV and ICE models? I don't know that we have 7/8 years to start making a difference.

@NotMeNoNo Yes comparing new models, an older ICE will have higher emissions again. I can't see why someone running an EV would not sign up to an all renewable tariff so break even would be closer to 30,000km or a couple of years.

Anything we do and everything we do counts. Climate doomism is just as dangerous as climate denial, it's also why we need to set achievable targets such as 2050 for net zero.

I'm also of the view that everything we do helps, it's hard to work out with the car though. If we trade in our diesel car, some other mug will just be driving it.