Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Climate Change

Who else is feeling super anxious about the climate crisis?

22 replies

Muddytoes1 · 12/09/2019 15:42

I’ve been getting more and more anxious about this the more I read. I have 2 tiny children and so worried about the future they face. From what I can tell the worldwide changes that would need to happen in the next decade or so to prevent total social breakdown are just not going to happen. They just aren’t. Even if every government in the world suddenly decided they were going to get serious, the changes they would need to impose would have people rioting. I’ve been trying hard to make changes at home but feel like I’m making a huge effort when it’s not going to make any real difference. I am signed up to go to the climate strikes on the 20th but feel like I’d be asking the government to do the impossible. No government is going to stay in power long if they have to implement the necessary changes. Anyway, just feeling overwhelmed and wondering who else is feeling like this and how you stay positive about the future? Thanks xx

OP posts:
Muddytoes1 · 12/09/2019 15:49

Argh just gone into the kitchen and dh has bought apples... from Cape Town!

OP posts:
DoctorAllcome · 12/09/2019 16:20

The impact of climate change has been wildly exaggerated. Your kids have a great world to look forward to. It used to be so much worse than it is now.

Honestly, the planets climate is in a constant state of change. Even looking at the 3.5 million years humans have been roaming around, we have survived through warmer periods than now. You know we are between ice ages? During that last warm period before the last ice age some 33,000 yrs ago the Earth was 5C warmer than it is now. There were no polar ice caps. The polar ice coming and going is not new.

Yes, humans have given a turbo boost to the warming, but as things are going with the emissions reductions and progress to net zero, we are looking at a peak of 2.5C warmer. We will be fine. We may not have polar ice caps, but that is not new for our species or others. Sea levels change, but again not new. There is still plenty of land to inhabit. Globally, we only use 25% of habitable land as is.

DoctorAllcome · 12/09/2019 16:27

Obviously, we should all try to live as lightly on the Earth as possible. The U.K. government is already very serious....I wish the US were half as serious! If anything, the protests should be aimed at the bad boys- China, US, India who are not reducing emissions. Tell your government to not relax environmental standards in trade deals...stuff like that.

Muddytoes1 · 12/09/2019 20:50

Thanks @DoctorAllcomefor replying. I actually disagree on the seriousness of the issue especially with a 2.5 degree temp increase. Yes of course humans may survive and have done in previous changes of climate but so many people may not and even if they do their lives may be massively disrupted. Still I really appreciate you taking the time to respond and your ideas about trade deals and focus on the big polluters is the way to go, but again will they listen and even if they do what will they actually do about it.

OP posts:
Muddytoes1 · 12/09/2019 20:52

I guess the thing I’m most worried about is conflicts caused by changing resources and displaced people.

OP posts:
DuesToTheDirt · 12/09/2019 20:55

Yes, I'm worried. It keeps me awake at nights. I'm not doing enough to address my part in it - so many things that I should change, but it's all going to happen regardless. Of course, that's what everyone thinks, and that's why we aren't making the necessary changes. It needs to come from the top (legislation, rationing etc.), which won't be popular.

Muddytoes1 · 12/09/2019 22:07

Thanks @DuesToTheDirt, it does need to be legislation but surely the legislation required to make a serious impact would get that government immediately voted out? That’s why I find the situation so impossible to resolve in my head as I feel even protesting won’t help. I also feel so guilty about the things I don’t do well enough yet. The big one being is disposable nappies and wipes for the baby.

OP posts:
Bambii · 12/09/2019 22:14

@Muddytoes1 - I feel you. Honestly, my mother is in her 70s and gets herself so anxious about climate change that we worry about her blood pressure and health.

That feeling of hopelessness can become so overwhelming and all consuming so I think sometimes it is important to step away from the noise temporarily in order to get some you time.

I stopped watching the news for a few weeks because I'd just had miscarriage number 3 and it was all too much to handle. I eventually came back to it but that away time really helped with my state of mind! Xx

Muddytoes1 · 12/09/2019 23:29

@Bambii sorry to hear about your miscarriages. That is a good idea about stepping back for a bit and my dh has suggested this too. I keep trying to remind myself that it’s not my responsibility to save the world, we just do what we can. Although that’s sad your mum is stressed about it rather than just chilling at her age it is nice to know how older people care. Me and dh’s parents aren’t in the slightest concerned and the environment is just this little background thing that’s nothing to do with them.

OP posts:
DoctorAllcome · 13/09/2019 20:11

Try reading this article....
www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/the-dangers-of-worrying-about-doomsday/article38062215/

It’s really good.

DoctorAllcome · 13/09/2019 20:17

Couple of excerpts
“Let's begin with the greatest existential question of all, the fate of our species. As with the more parochial question of our fate as individuals, we assuredly have to come to terms with our mortality. Biologists joke that to a first approximation all species are extinct, since that was the fate of at least 99 per cent of the species that ever lived. A typical mammalian species lasts around a million years, and it's hard to insist that Homo sapiens will be an exception. Even if we had remained technologically humble hunter-gatherers, we would still be living in a geological shooting gallery. A burst of gamma rays from a supernova or collapsed star could irradiate half the planet, brown the atmosphere and destroy the ozone layer, allowing ultraviolet light to irradiate the other half. Or the Earth's magnetic field could flip, exposing the planet to an interlude of lethal solar and cosmic radiation. An asteroid could slam into the Earth, flattening thousands of square miles and kicking up debris that would black out the sun and drench us with corrosive rain. Supervolcanoes or massive lava flows could choke us with ash, CO2 and sulfuric acid. A black hole could wander into the solar system and pull the Earth out of its orbit or suck it into oblivion. Even if the species manages to survive for a billion more years, the Earth and solar system will not: The sun will start to use up its hydrogen, become denser and hotter and boil away our oceans on its way to becoming a red giant.

Technology, then, is not the reason that our species must some day face the Grim Reaper. Indeed, technology is our best hope for cheating death, at least for a while. As long as we are entertaining hypothetical disasters far in the future, we must also ponder hypothetical advances that would allow us to survive them, such as growing food under lights powered with nuclear fusion, or synthesizing it in industrial plants such as biofuel. Even technologies of the not-so-distant future could save our skin. It's technically feasible to track the trajectories of asteroids and other "extinction-class near-Earth objects," spot the ones that are on a collision course with the Earth and nudge them off course before they send us the way of the dinosaurs. NASA has also figured out a way to pump water at high pressure into a supervolcano and extract the heat for geothermal energy, cooling the magma enough that it would never blow its top. Our ancestors were powerless to stop these lethal menaces, so in that sense, technology has not made this a uniquely dangerous era in the history of our species but a uniquely safe one.”
“Other threats are less fanciful, but are already being blunted. Contrary to Malthusian predictions of teeming populations eating themselves into mass starvation, the world has been increasingly feeding itself. The reasons include advances in agronomy, the spread of democratic governance and especially the demographic transition: As countries escape extreme poverty and illiteracy, their people choose to have fewer children. The predictions of catastrophic resource depletion have been repeatedly falsified, too, by a combination of technology and markets. As the most easily extracted supply of a resource becomes scarcer, its price rises, encouraging people to conserve it, get at the less accessible deposits or find cheaper and more plentiful substitutes.

This leaves still other threats which are real and nowhere near being solved: climate change and nuclear war. But unsolved does not mean unsolvable. Pathways to decarbonizing the economy have been mapped out, including carbon pricing, zero-carbon energy sources and programs for carbon capture and storage. So have pathways to denuclearization, including strengthening international institutions, de-alerting nuclear forces, stabilizing systems of deterrence and verifiably reducing (and eventually eliminating) nuclear arsenals.

The prospect of meeting these challenges is by no means utopian. The world has dealt with global challenges in the past, including atmospheric nuclear testing and the ozone hole. It has survived half-mad despots with nuclear weapons, namely Stalin and Mao, and episodes of dangerous brinkmanship during the Cold War. It has reduced nuclear arsenals by 85 per cent, and the amount of CO2 emitted per dollar of GDP by 44 per cent. Implementing the measures that will drive these numbers all the way down to zero will require enormous amounts of persuasion, pressure, and will.

But we know that there is one measure that will not make the world safer: moaning that we're doomed.”

DoctorAllcome · 13/09/2019 20:20

As well as Malthus...who was a scientist, scientifically predicting the end of the world due to over population (and was disproven). He also talks about the scientists saying it again for Y2K
“Scientists and technologists are by no means immune. Remember the Y2K bug? In the 1990s, as the turn of the millennium drew near, computer scientists began to warn the world of an impending catastrophe....When 12 a.m. on Jan. 1, 2000, arrived and the digits rolled over, a program would think it was 1900 and would crash or go haywire (presumably because it would divide some number by the difference between what it thought was the current year and the year 1900, namely zero, although why a program would do this was never made clear). At that moment, bank balances would be wiped out, elevators would stop between floors, incubators in maternity wards would shut off, water pumps would freeze, planes would fall from the sky, nuclear-power plants would melt down and intercontinental ballistic missiles would be launched from their silos.

And these were the hardheaded predictions from tech-savvy authorities (such as president Bill Clinton, who warned the nation, "I want to stress the urgency of the challenge. This is not one of the summer movies where you can close your eyes during the scary part"). Cultural pessimists saw the Y2K bug as comeuppance for enthralling our civilization to technology. Among religious thinkers, the numerological link to Christian millennialism was irresistible. The Reverend Jerry Falwell declared, "I believe that Y2K may be God's instrument to shake this nation, humble this nation, awaken this nation and from this nation start revival that spreads the face of the earth before the Rapture of the Church." A hundred billion dollars was spent worldwide on reprogramming software for Y2K Readiness, a challenge that was likened to replacing every bolt in every bridge in the world.”

DoctorAllcome · 13/09/2019 20:24

This is why YOU should not lose hope!
“the greatest danger of all: that reasonable people will think, as a 2016 New York Times article put it, "These grim facts should lead any reasonable person to conclude that humanity is screwed." If humanity is screwed, why sacrifice anything to reduce potential risks? Why forgo the convenience of fossil fuels or exhort governments to rethink their nuclear weapons policies? Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die! A 2013 survey in four English-speaking countries showed that among the respondents who believe that our way of way of life will probably end in a century, a majority endorsed the statement, "The world's future looks grim so we have to focus on looking after ourselves and those we love."
“Few writers on technological risk give much thought to the cumulative psychological effects of the drumbeat of doom. As Elin Kelsey, an environmental communicator, points out, "We have media ratings to protect children from sex or violence in movies, but we think nothing of inviting a scientist into a second-grade classroom and telling the kids the planet is ruined. A quarter of [Australian] children are so troubled about the state of the world that they honestly believe it will come to an end before they get older." According to recent polls, so do 15 per cent of people worldwide, and between a quarter and a third of Americans. In The Progress Paradox, the journalist Gregg Easterbrook suggests that a major reason that Americans are not happier, despite their rising objective fortunes, is "collapse anxiety": the fear that civilization may implode and there's nothing anyone can do about it.”
“. As author and academic Eric Zencey has observed, "There is seduction in apocalyptic thinking. If one lives in the Last Days, one's actions, one's very life, take on historical meaning and no small measure of poignance."

PuzzlePiecesAllOver · 13/09/2019 20:54

I am.

I have found action helps. Extinction Rebellion suggest 5 years to change our ways. So I used a online calculator to work out my carbon footprint. Then took action, bit by bit (giving myself 5 years to reduce it down to 2.5 a year I think?).

I have watched Hugh FW's War on Plastic and made changes there as and when I can. My children and I litter pick when out and about.

We have planted up our front garden (12 ft by 4 ft and paved) with pots of bee/butterfly/insect friendly flowers. I started feeding and watering the birds in the front too (now whole flocks of them come to us).

I talk to people about the climate crisis and what we are doing, if the conversation comes round to that.

We go on the student strikes once a month at our nearest city.

I write to my MP, sign petitions, donate money to environmental causes, only a few pounds but its something.

I find so many people actually do care. But they care about different aspects of the crisis.

I very much agree governments have got to lead on this one. They should be leading the way but they are just paying it lip service right now.

Oh and I also started an Open University science degree last year. That's what I'm about to do now. I've told myself to stop reading the environmental news on google and work on doing my bit to contribute to my children's future. No idea which way I will go with it yet, but science is the way forward.

So anyway, action helps the anxiety.

Have you heard of Scotlands 'Wee Rebellion'? Mums going to playgrounds with their little one's and taking pavement chalk...(I've done this myself at the train station...felt a real rebel but the litter and cigarette butts were disgusting! Cleaned up the rubbish and left a chalked message '80% of all marine waste is from the land. BIN YOUR RUBBISH'. And reminded myself that chalk washes off with rain...)

WallyWallyWally · 14/09/2019 08:28

I’ve taken up Stoicism. One of the key philosophies being “we must make the best of those things that are in our power, and take the rest as nature gives it”.

So yes, I recycle, take public transport, re use or avoid plastic etc like a good little greenie. Because I can do these things, that’s within my power. It won’t make any difference to the end result but I do them nonetheless as they make me feel better.

The things I can’t control, I think about them in a fairly detached way, mainly because I’m interested in geopolitics (my background is ecology and sustainable development). But I cannot do anything to change these. I can’t force governments to abandon growth- based policies, I can force people to make do with less, I can’t make people aspire to less. That’s not within my power.

So I let it go, and enjoy the present as best I can.

Muddytoes1 · 15/09/2019 22:33

Sorry for slow response, moving house at the moment. Thanks so much for all your replies! @DoctorAllcome I read the whole thing, good article and lots of good for thought, thank you.

OP posts:
Muddytoes1 · 15/09/2019 22:36

@PuzzlePiecesAllOver love the idea of a wee rebellion! @WallyWallyWally I think you are right about needing to detach what I can do from what governments need to do. I also somehow need to get over the guilt for when I can’t do things perfectly as at the moment I feel guilty every time I get in the car which isn’t great. Thanks again for all your suggestions x

OP posts:
DoctorAllcome · 16/09/2019 10:00

I like wally and puzzles approach, probably because it mirrors mine.
I believe in personal responsibility...so I do what I can to be green.
When we first lobbied for and got recycling available where I lived, you had to drive 45 mins to these dumpsters arranged on a bare patch of ground....one for each type glass, one for cardboard, one for paper, one for plastic, one for tin cans. No one was recycling back then. It was unheard of. Lots of people said “why bother”. But enough of us were willing to wash and save our recycling and every fortnight make the drive to drop it off that we filled those dumpsters.
Then the city agreed to issue blue bins for our recycling but we had to pay an extra $10/mo waste charge for each blue bin...which was the size of a tote. We happily paid extra to recycle. Again, people moaned why recycle when you have to pay extra? We got businesses on board to do it too. After a few years, enough people started doing it that we eventually were able to get recycling included as part of the base price for waste removal. Now it’s “free” you pay the same to recycle or not and that is what today’s 20yr olds have only ever known.

Individuals taking responsibility has and can change entire populations in less than a generation. You may not think you are making a difference, but you are. We are like a flock of birds or shoal of fish...enough start going in one direction and eventually everyone else follows.

MrsPellegrinoPetrichor · 16/09/2019 10:06

Do your bit as best you can,go on a march if it'll make you feel better but ultimately you need to stop reading so much about it if it's making you so anxious and get on with your day to day life with your family. There is plenty you can do but it'll not help anyone if it's making you this anxious.

MrsPellegrinoPetrichor · 16/09/2019 10:09

Incidentally,have people stopped unwrapping in supermarkets or is that a thing still? When I lived in London years ago,there was a big move to unwrap unnecessary plastics and leave them at the till for the supermarket to deal with. That seems to have stopped,I don't hear about it at all now.

EcoEve83 · 15/10/2019 11:57

@Muddytoes1 I'm worried too and you're right, it's very difficult to escape being bombarded by it through the media. But from what you've said you're doing the right thing- doing what we can and making little changes helps more than we know. I think of it this way every time I do something small to help, I'm no scientist, but I don't think the world will be worse off for us reducing waste and trying to help the environment, so every little helps in one way or another. Smile

TimRoot · 18/10/2019 13:26

STRIKES, REBELLION? WHICH WAY NOW TO SAVE OUR CLIMATE?

You are invited to discussion with speakers

Macsen Brown, UK Student Climate Network

and

Max Wakefield, Campaign Director, 10:10

Thursday 24 October 7.30 PM

at Muswell Hill Methodist Church

28 Pages Lane N10 1PP

134 bus or 43 bus from Muswell Hill Broadway

Tim Root
Co-ordinator, Muswell Hill & Hornsey Friends of the Earth
07726 793265

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread