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Original poster

So what do we think about Snow White pantos that DON'T use children as the dwarfs?

43 replies

TherewasnoMOOMattheINn · 30/12/2007 21:35

I was a bit unsettled to see adult actors as the dwarfs, all with restricted growth. Don't know why I should feel this way really except I was thinking if I had a child with Achondroplasia or restricted growth how would I feel about perceptions of my child's condition if most people's only exposure to it is at the panto, rather than in everday life in the workplace, school, whatever...

Dh thought I was being a bit over-sensitive and pointed out that none of the actors were there by force and they were making a good living (we don't actually know this is the case though). My MIL thought I was being a bit pc about it when I mentioned it (she reads the Daily Mail though so we do tend to differ somewhat in our views ). Dh also said that if pantos stopped using actors with restricted growth, then the exsisting actors wouldn't even get these gigs, so they'd be worse off.

Is it patronising of me to be even worried by it? Why should it even be an issue for me (because it is)? What's the general MN consensus?

OP posts:
southeastastra · 30/12/2007 21:38

alot of them are showbiz types. they aren't forced to do it are they

Slouchy · 30/12/2007 21:39

Dunno really. Its a bit ick IMO.

Just wanted to say hello really! And Happy New Year to ye

Octo · 30/12/2007 21:40

Which is worse then - a person with a condition (dwarf) playing a person with that condition or a child playing a person with a special need/condition (dwarf)??

madamez · 30/12/2007 21:41

Why shouldn't restricted-growth adult actors play characters-of-restricted-growth? It's not like white actors blacking up to play Othello. ANd yes, there probably should be more theatrical and media representations of people with restricted growth but stopping such people having access to work they can do and choose to do strikes me as patronizing and unhelpful.

pinkbubble · 30/12/2007 21:41

When we saw Snow white and The Seven Dwarfs, they were adults. DD thought I was teasing, she actually thought they were children. I am all for people mixing and as SEA says they are not forced to do it, so if they didn't enjoy then they wouldn't do it. Also its good for children etc to see things like this and for it to become a norm rather than a rarity and stare!

yogabird · 30/12/2007 21:41

saw SW & the 7 D with real small men in Malvern just before Xmas, saw a couple in the pub afterwards the next evening having a beer and PC Plum ( who i got overexcited about touching my arm and came over all groupie ish, ' you were so good!' - he is so tall in real life)Anyway, i digress.... i thought it was fine but i must admit, i was surprised initially

08aGreatYearForCarmenere · 30/12/2007 21:42

Pantos have big budgets these days so I'm pretty sure that they get paid well.

My friend who has anachondraplasia was offered a leading role in a feature film undoubtedly because of his size as well as his ability to act, is that wrong?

Original poster
TherewasnoMOOMattheINn · 30/12/2007 21:42

Dunno really.

(Hi Slouchy hope you had a good one!)

Can't decide if I'm being a bit of a wishy washy liberal about it.

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whoops · 30/12/2007 21:42

They are adults that need to make a living too.
I used to teach a child with Achondroplasia when I worked at a leisure centre and quite a few years on I saw him acting in Panto

FluffyMummy123 · 30/12/2007 21:43

Message withdrawn

Original poster
TherewasnoMOOMattheINn · 30/12/2007 21:45

lol about PC PLum - we went to this one too! Yes I'm prob being all unnecessary about it - kept thinking about pos/neg/cliched images of 'dwarfs' and felt a bit uncomfortable, that's all.

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dinny · 30/12/2007 21:45

Wimbledon Snow White has all adults as dwarves (according to mil who went last week)

doesn't bother me - they are all actors and Equity members, it's not exploitation, just casting

Original poster
TherewasnoMOOMattheINn · 30/12/2007 21:46

Fair enuf I'll shut up then

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dinny · 30/12/2007 21:46

but the image of a dwarf is that they are unusually short and that is why they are being cast, because they are precisely that.

colditz · 30/12/2007 21:50

Why are they not allowed to act because of a 'disability'? Would you object to an actor with Down's Syndrome playing a character who has Down's Syndrome? Are fat women being exploited if they play fat female characters?

And what about the Ugly Sisters? Is it degrading for genuine cross dressers to play the part?

I think that if they weren't happy, they wouldn't be doing it.

Original poster
TherewasnoMOOMattheINn · 30/12/2007 21:57

I guess my point wasn't that they shouldn't be there, or anything related with existing actors, more like if I had a child with restricted growth would this be the one of the only paths open to them because of other people's perceptions of what they were capable of and life would be made even harder for them because of the immediate connotations of dwarfs as Snow White's companions?!

As we walked from the carpark to the theatre two of them were outside the stage door having a fag. A couple of lads walked past and said 'Mate, don't smoke you'll stunt your growth'. Stuff like that really... But as I said before I recognise that I'm being a bit patronising probably. I don't mean to be.. just wondered what other views might be

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FrannyandZooey · 30/12/2007 21:58

I think looking at people with disabilities / conditions such as restricted growth on stage can make us feel uncomfortable for lots of reasons, not all of them justifiable

I saw an excellent production of Joe Orton's What the Butler Saw (quite a subversive and sexual play) performed by actors with different disabilities. I felt really uncomfortable for the first 10 mins or so, mostly because of the sexual content I think - I obviously have got hang ups about disabilities and sex as probably a lot of us have. As the play went on the performers were so good I stopped noticing. It was a fantastic production and challenged me quite a lot.

There's a performer called Tam somebody I think, who is Thalidomide damaged whose act deals with this sort of issue. He goes quite deeply and uncomfortably into our perception of 'freaks' and disabled performers. Well worth seeing.

I am not sure how I feel about the Snow White + dwarves thing. It is a thorny topic as the two above shows made me realise.

Bumblelion · 30/12/2007 22:00

This is such a difficult subject, as my youngest DD does not have an 'undergrowth' condition (such as achondroplasia) but an 'overgrowth' condition, i.e. she is 6 years old, wears size 2 (adult shoes) and wears age 8 year clothing.

I was shopping with my boyfriend yesterday who knows my DD has a 'growth' condition (she is tall genetically but luckily both me and her dad are not tall so she will not be a 'giant' but in Croydon yesterday my boyfriend 'pointed out' a man in Marks & Spencer who was 'tall' but it made me feel bad that my boyfiend made a point of this - what does it matter.

As long as the person (child/adult) is not being exploited (and I will not let my DD be exploited), it is not a problem.

I think it is more the perception of 'strangers' who make individuals feel different. My DD is no different to any other DD (my other one included) except that she is a bit taller, a bit behind other children the same age.

Accept everyone for who and what they are, if that individual has also accepted who and what they are, either it be short stature or tall stature.

We can all be so critical of those who are not 'normal' but what is 'normal' and if that person (chidl/adult) is not being exploited, all is fine.

FrannyandZooey · 30/12/2007 22:01

\link{http://www.matfraser.co.uk/This is the man I was thinking of - Mat Fraser)

FrannyandZooey · 30/12/2007 22:01

Mat Fraser?

Hulababy · 30/12/2007 22:01

I know that whenever their is a pantomime of Snow White here in Sheffield it is noramlly adult actors playing the parts of Dwarfs. You see the actors wandering round the city centre a lot at the time.

I remember watching something on Tv that showed some actors and had interviews with them - the men they spoke to seemed very up for it all and not in the least feeling as though they were being dissadvantaged or partonised.

Original poster
TherewasnoMOOMattheINn · 30/12/2007 22:05

Excellent point spidermama. BUt that's something different isn't it? If I went to see a play like the Orton one and some of the actors had disabilities then, yes, it would surprise the audience initally, because of the hang-ups we might or might not have, but that would be LOADS more a of a positive thing because it's challenging the perceptions we have of people with disabilties and showing that having a disability is secondary to being a functioning human being with feelings, urges and relationships.

I'm sure that some of the actors in the panto today wish that they could be considered for more roles where their size is not the main reason for their employment. I'm not patronising enough to say that they were all fanstastic in their roles, because at least 4 of them weren't - they were awful actors and one of them looked thoroughly pissed off being there (and it wasn't Grumpy)

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lisalisa · 30/12/2007 22:11

Message withdrawn

Original poster
TherewasnoMOOMattheINn · 30/12/2007 22:12

Good luck to the actors that are totally up for it and enjoy it and I agree they are not being exploited in that sense. I think what I'm trying to say is that if there were roles for more people who had all kinds of disabilities and a dwarf in the panto was one of the many many roles an actor with restricted growth could consider then it wouldn;t be such an issue.

But where else do we see actors with restricted growth? Bit arts on comedy programmes that take the piss (Phoenix Nights for one). Is there anyone on a soap? Or would that be seen as just a token part and too 'pc'? I really don't know

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bossybritches · 30/12/2007 22:37

Listen 100 years ago these guys (& girls) would have been in freak shows & heavily exploited.

Now they can be gainfully employed in a profession that they enjoy & give pleasure to hundreds. Rusty Goffe has worked on countless films & shows in a plethora of roles .....he's well liked & respected in his field as a fine actor above all!

Look at his CV!!