Consequences for child who opened presents early

[LemonadeRemedy]

Just after a bit of perspective on this. My just 9 year old (nt) opened two of his Christmas presents before the big day and then hid them in the hope of not getting found out. He also unwrapped other presents and then used sellotape to tape them together again after having peeped. I'm fucking furious but struggle with knowing how to handle these kinds of issues. Wwyd if this was your child?

If you want to turn Christmas into a big confrontation, where you assert your authority over your child, go ahead and make a big deal of it.

If you want to build a close relationship with your child, guide him towards adulthood, and build the foundations for a deep and loving relationship for life, talk about the consequences (how he felt later; what he deprived himself of; how you felt a bit disappointed not to see his surprise; opening other people's presents).

I've done it, by accident ,as a child - and my mother told me about when she did it (and how miserable it was).

And hide the presents better next year.

I also think it's odd that you're so angry. I'm wondering if it's transposed anger about not having Christmas day with him? That's not his fault, is it?

So he has had to wait an extra week for Christmas number 2 because if the shared care arrangements between you and your ex? Honestly I would just let it go - many kids have snuck around trying to work out the contents of packages since the start of time without the extra week of waiting.

TBH I would not do anything but have a quiet word - they are his own surprises that he has "ruined" - the last thing you want is for him to remember your Christmas as a time of rows and upset - just ignore

You’re asking a hell of a lot setting all the presents out under the tree to just be stared at before he can open them. There should be nothing under the tree til they wake up ‘Christmas morning’ - whatever day that is in your house.

It’s Christmas not an all you can eat buffet!

I really have a hard time wrapping my head around some of these answers....

(But as I said, I wouldn’t ruin his Christmas because of this.)

My teen dc told me this year that every year they knew where i hid their presents, the littlest one climbed behind the fridge with sellotape while the other one kept watch, unwrapped one end and told the other one who wrote them down, they just didn't know which presents were for who. They knew santa didn't bring the presents, mam put them behind the fridge but they couldn't say anything when i was banging on about being good or santa wont bring you any presents or i would know they had found them

Half the fun of Christmas for me was trying to find presents and work out what wrapped ones were.
Just wrap selection boxes next year for under the tree and hide the others.
I remember my friend found a ring he had asked for and he was wearing it for about 3 weeks before Xmas and sneaking it back into his mums handbag every evening I had great awe for him.

Otherwise I was a very well behaved child and never disobeyed my parents. Even as a teenager.

Your child your parenting rules. If you think this behaviour is just one of many disrespectful behaviours then yanbu to take the presents away.

What thecatfromjapan said.

Meh I'm 32 and I still have a look around the house and poke,prod and shake things.

You were a very unusual child OP, if you never looked for or opened Christmas presents.

Children do this. Next year, hide them well. Put wrapped empty boxes under the tree for decoration if you like the way that looks.

I agree with posters who suggest that the shared care Christmas thing may have left DS a bit unsettled, and also that it affected you. You waited a long time for your experience of Christmas morning after all, but DS has already had Christmas, and maybe he felt it was no big deal to open Christmas presents since Christmas has already happened.

Maybe sort out how you feel about missing the actual Christmas morning. Is that the permanent arrangement? That must be hard for you.

Why should you have to hide Christmas presents better, rather than trusting your child?

Does that also apply to things like chocolate and puddings? Should that apply to test papers left on a shelf in a classroom?

I am curious as to where people would draw the line between expecting a 9 year old to be able to defer gratification for themselves and where they would expect an adult to use lock and key.

Personally I think that the majority have extraordinarily low expectations of what 9 year olds are capable of. Beautifully wrapped presents under the tree are part of what makes the tree attractive and the waiting and build up of excitement was a lot of the pleasure of Christmas for me as a child.

I seriously doubt whether the average 9 year old boy is all that interested in how beautifully the presents are wrapped, or the attractiveness of the tree, and I do not know a single parent who does not put a good deal of thought into where to hide the presents. I know a lot of parents.

This is not because they don't normally trust their children or because they feel deep down that their children are going to hell in a handcart. It's because they value the special Christmas moments and don't want the children to miss them either.

The parents are kind enough to try to save the children from themselves. By doing this, they teach them that waiting for a surprise brings a very enjoyable moment in the end. It's far kinder to take control of the situation than punishing afterwards.

A teacher who leaves test papers on a shelf in a classroom is an idiot who needs a talking to from the department head. Why would you go to the trouble of preparing a test and then risk it being leaked?

If the test is important to you as a teacher, and an important element of the testing process is that students do not know in advance what is to be asked, then you as a teacher should not leave the paper on a shelf.

Similarly, if the element of surprise is important at Christmas, and you as a parent want to see the surprised and happy faces of the children, and you want to teach them the joy of delaying gratification, do not leave temptation out for them under the tree.

You can train them all year to leave chocolate or goodies alone - helping themselves isn't going to put a damper in a special occasion for the most part, and they can learn to ask or to wait for a helping, but if a parent values the Christmas experience, then taking into account the excitement and impulsiveness of children is only sensible.

You shouldn't leave things out in circumstances you consider to be high stakes events, where you will be tempted to go bananas and punish children disproportionately if their natural curiosity overwhelms them. That is not fair on the children.

Oh dear,

A typically well written if overly wordy post.

I know a lot of teachers and they all leave tests (not examination papers) on shelves in their classrooms/labs. It is very rare (almost unheard of) for a pupil to look or take things from teachers’ shelves. This is because of clearly stated and known meaningful consequences (detentions, parents being called etc).

You cannot bring up responsible adults without ever allowing children to fail and live with the consequences.

Do you believe that a spoon fed child will turn into a responsible self-reliant adult by magic? That a switch will go on in their brain at some point in their lives without any conditioning?

My kids love hearing about the naughtiest things I did as a child and, importantly, what happened to me.

This is increasingly being acknowledged in the educational world, a bit of a back-to-the-future moment.

Honesty can be expected and encouraged and consequences for dishonesty are a part of this.

What about hiding sweets and chocolates? Should a 9 year old be able to resist grabbing the puddings from the fridge before dinner or would that be another ‘aww, how sweet and entrepreneurial’ moment?!

I've just popped back to say hello to OP.

I was thinking about you. You may have left this thread and gone off to real life but, just in case you haven't ...

I just wanted to say that I hope you had a good Christmas. You do sound stressed. I have been wondering if you feel cared for - I hope you do. And I thought I'd take the time to wish you (and your ds) all the best for the coming year.

Ahem. Larry, that's rather incendiary, isn't it? You're trying to start a bunfight-within-a-thread by arguing with a particular poster about their opinion. Which is just that: opinion/advice - which was, after all, solicited by the OP.

People don;t have to agree: you with her; her with you. In RL, there are many ways to live, many different views on an issue, many ways to raise a child. It's a strange, authoritarian, impulse, to wish to stifle that multiplicity into uniformity. Especially since that very multiplicity in approaches may, in and of itself, be rather positive from an evolutionary perspective (the variety and experimentation helps produce new patterns for parenting, necessary to respond to the demands of a changing world, the variety helps produce a variety of character traits and differing resiliences - also necessary in a world whose needs and requirements change).

I'm sure you can see that parents who spend the time talking to their children don't always produce offspring that are feral fire-starters, causing mayhem in the classroom. Indeed, I suspect the opposite might be the case (as you, as a teacher, will know from Dylan Wiliam's work, if not your own experience).

TheCat,

Point taken....up to a point.

However the vast majority of posters have not responded to the OP’s question but lectured her on why she should not have left presents under the tree in the first place.

I have, at least, agreed with the OP and answered her question.

And, yes, I do agree with you that there are many ways of successfully educating children. Some children genuinely require very few boundaries or consequences and are almost born sensible (I was probably one of them).

However many children are not like that and do require firm boundaries and consequences if they are breached (it is termed ‘high expectations’ in education).

Teachers daily deal with the absence of these from parents and the knock on effect in classroom behaviour; Pupils who think that they can do no wrong but are constantly trying to get the teacher into trouble as consequences only happen to adults.

My kids love hearing about the naughtiest things I did as a child and, importantly, what happened to me

Evidence that their parent was not always a sanctimonious old fart perhaps

The fridge and ring stories from further up the page just make me smile

I am not advocating taking presents away forever or anything draconian, just temporary confiscation. You can even say ‘good try’ and acknowledge the wit of trying to wrap them up again. However, at the same time, there should be a consequence.

That way both the OP and her son can look back and laugh at it later, knowing that it won’t be repeated ( or at least repeating it risks a consequence).

I used to do this as a child and I wasn't a naughty child in fact a real goody two-shoes. Not having a surprise never spoiled Christmas for me, it relieved a whole lot of angst in me. I would far rather know what I was having be that something small or large. I think it's about being able to be in control of your emotions. Some people really don't like surprises.

Yes indeed, TheCat.

If every child who opened presents early was to be rewarded by confiscation, three quarters of all children would end up twiddling their thumbs over Christmas with no toys to play with. Then they would set about figuring out where the confiscated toys were hidden.

Dear Lord Larry give it to me rest. Your going to deep with this, give the kids a break.
365 days a year for all this, one day, one misdemeanor does not, does not a delinquent make

I wasn’t joking! The presents were wrapped in my room she had taken one, opened it & taken out of box & played with & hid in her bed. I took it and it was put on the kitchen shelf for 2 weeks while I decided what to do then went in the bin.

She didn’t care so I didn’t hide it when family asked if she had been good. Dd is now at the stage that the only thing that’s working at the moment is embarrassment.

Even that didn’t work this time as Christmas Eve I found 3 stocking presents opened & in the back garden.

I will admit Iv just given her these back because of this thread. Disciplining Dd is not that easy she doesn’t seem to care about being sent to her room, taking things, loss of screen time. She’s not naughty really it’s hormonal attitude & being sly to her brothers that is. I was really shocked that she had don’t this.

I will admit to poking holes in presents when I was a teen but they were under the tree so it was fair game!

I know a lot of teachers and they all leave tests (not examination papers) on shelves in their classrooms/labs. It is very rare (almost unheard of) for a pupil to look or take things from teachers’ shelves. This is because of clearly stated and known meaningful consequences (detentions, parents being called etc)

Strangely enough, I know a lot of teachers too, in both Ireland and the US, and if any of them left tests on a shelf they would face disciplinary action.

The reason is that the consequences for the children of cheating on the test and being found out are so great that it is considered completely unfair to leave temptation in their path. Cheating goes in the student's permanent record. They will earn an F in their course for a single incident of cheating or plagiarism that is discovered.

Same principle goes for Christmas presents - if Christmas is a big deal, if you and the children have been looking forward to it all year, if it means so much to you to see DCs all surprised and happy on Christmas morning, hide the presents well. If Christmas is so big a deal to you that ruining the surprise ruins Christmas, then don't leave it to chance, and don't put all of your expectations for a successful Christmas in the hands of a child.

You can use appropriate consequences as necessary all year round for children who eat the dessert for that night's dinner at 11am, etc. This is a safely low stakes event and the response of the parent will probably not be coloured by any major emotional investment, unlike the Christmas scenario. Children can learn gradually what their own priorities are and how they can compromise in order to fit in with the expectations of others. The only thing a smart child will learn from draconian punishment at Christmas is how to re-tape presents properly.

(As an aside, if you have a lot invested in the Christmas morning experience, so much that you are left fucking furious (or words to that effect) that a child did something completely predictable and normal with presents left out, then you need to sit down and try to get to the bottom of your expectations of Christmas, and ask if it is appropriate to expect the child to create your Christmas experience, or whether Christmas offers something for the child too.)

In this case, the child spends time with both parents in separate houses, and the child has been a bit of a handful for a little while - I think a parent needs to poke around a little and figure out if there is something in that situation, juxtaposed with all the 'family' themed hoopla around Christmas, that is making the child upset. Christmas is a hard time for children if they have two sets of parents to do Christmas with. It can develop into a case of performing Christmas for the parents, twice. This can be the cause of unhappiness in children as they take second place at a series of faux events that is just the one special, child-centered thing in other people's families.

(As another aside, it's probably not a good idea to place desserts, chocolate, etc on a pedestal by dishing out punishment for eating these items and not, for instance, for helping themselves to cheese. You only reinforce in a child's mind that there is a hierarchy of food with sweet things on top if you do this.

I would not punish a child who ate only his own portion of dessert/chocolate, etc. He only hurt himself after all in so doing, and I would have given it to him later anyway. Children can be allowed a certain amount of choice in the timing of their meals, desserts, snacks imo, with natural consequences to choose from. If a child feels miserable that everyone else is eating dessert after dinner but he has already had his, then he can be asked to ponder his priorities.

If he ate everyone else's too, however, then that would merit a punishment - not because sweets are special but because he took away everyone else's food and obv their choice as to when they would eat it. However, I would suspect a child who did a thing like that would be experiencing some sort of massive brain fart or some issue that needed addressing by means other than the handy/lazy one of punishment alone.)

Math,

I think we have a language issue with the word test. In the UK it means a (relatively) informal test on a topic. We use the word 'examination' for more formal assessments. And it would only be cheating in a public exam that would go on a pupil's permanent record.

Is Christmas a 'high stakes' event?

Stabby Do you think the New Year might be a chance to re-set your relationship with your dd?

It sounds as though the two of you have settled into a pattern where your communication is all about poor behaviour and sanctions. That's not good for the pair of you in the long run and must be pretty depressing.

She gets attention by being naughty/difficult; you end up only giving attention through sanctions (taking things away; sending her to her room; etc.). It won't work in the long run because actually what she wants is your attention and love - and,to her, the only way she seems to get that is negatively - when you sanction her. So she'll keep doing it because any attention beats no attention. Moreover, she's only 9 and in danger of confusing that with adult attention full stop.

Re-calibrate: start looking for anything you can praise her for; actually set aside some time in the day to give her your full attention. Cooking (baking) with her is a good one; doing homework/research on school-work is another; reading to her at bed time (I read to my children beyond the start of secondary school - which sounds weird, these days, but families used to read aloud, together up until the C20, so sod it.).

It's not 'giving in' to try and re-calibrate your relationship into something more positive. It makes sense for both of you in the long run. The current situation sounds like a complete drag and is a self-perpetuating cycle that will only get worse.

I'd also suggest that you try and find ways to giver yourself a break - even if it's just insisting that you sit down with a cup of tea for 10 minutes, speaking to no-one, every day. Acknowledging that you're working hard and need a break every now and then can really help you to de-stress.

Thecat you’ve hit the nail on the head but putting one on one time into implement isn’t that easy with a toddler & DS8 who has Sen. I tend to buy her & she knows it & acts spoilt because of it that’s why she wasn’t bothered about the Xmas presents.

I have also had depression since I was 14 & now a few physical issues which are all being sorted in the new few weeks so once these are under control I will be tackling mine & DDs issues.