how do you avoid giving dcs the impression that Christmas is nought but a consumer frenzy?

[hatwoman]

If you're not Christian - especially, perhaps, if you're like me - brought up nominally as one, but now a non-believer,(hence no other religion in you) what exactly is Christmas all about? yes i can do the "some people believe..." speech but why are we, the Hat family, making a song and dance about it? Does anyone out there try to impart a kind of secular Christmas message to their children?

family getting together for a big eat/drink/merry etc? Which involves, but is not ruled by, presents.

Don't buy them any presents

I suggested to my kids today that we go to church on Christmas Eve for all the carols etc. DS1 said 'why would we do that?'

My fault of course. Therefore there is no meaning to Christmas except presents

it is a consumer frenzy in our house

fortunately dses are at a church school, so will get the correct message there

If I dodn't believe,I wouldn't celebrate it frankly or would do so as a Pagan festival of sorts,whilst pointing out why other people do what they do.

A good way to tone it down is to..

avoid shops
avoid tv (or at least tv ads)

As a minister told my mother,take Christ out of Christmas and what do you have?

M&S

PMSL moondog, that is excellent

how would you celebrate it as a pagan festival of sorts?

I don;t think there is anything wrong with "celebrating" Christmas - (although "celebrating" becomes the wrong word.) Many of the child-focused bits and bobs are wholly cultural and have nothing to do with religion anyway. I don't wish to turn my back on the rituals of my childhood just because I lost god somewhere along the way. I still like jesus quite a lot...

God, we are in just the same boat. I can't bear to start talking about Jesus. As a vehement atheist, I can't bear to be the one to introduce the whole concept.

On the other hand, it seems a bit empty without any reference to what it is all about. At the moment though, it actually is a consumer frenzy, which seeing as we are quite frugal the rest of the year, is quite fun.

Would love suggestions for Pagan festival though - "taking it back to its roots". All the traditions like Christmas tree, feasting, holly, ivy, Yule log etc trace back to then, but what was the meaning of it all????

X posts! DIdn't realise you wanted the jesus bit

I'd see it as a festival to ward off doom and gloom of long dark nights which is what it was before Christians came along.
Whatever your stance,I think the idea of a baby and renewed hope and affirmation of love is a splendid lesson for us all.

Oh and getting shitfaced too.

I don't shop or watch tv (not being smug,I just have no interest) and as a result don't feel remotely harassed.

Not doing Christmas cards helps too.

I just think he spoke quite a lot of sense. I guess the mid-winter festival has generally been about "OMG we can;t carry on being miserable with our 8 hours of daylight, let's have a bit of a party. and take a risk on blowing some of the stores. spring'll be here soon..." so. not much different really?

x-posted with moondog. it does feel particularly gloomy this year. god knows what it must have been like in a cave

Yes, I guess that makes sense about the short days - imagine winter without it?

For now, we are lucky, dd1 has very little idea what is going on except for santa claus. Even that is still a fairly nebulous concept.

I agree with you that Jesus's teachings are really good. Just wisdom really.

I am Jewish and my husband is christian, but neither of us are believers. However, we are still lighting the Hannukah candles tonight and also will be celebrating christmas. To us, it is about family and cultural tradition. I have read to my older ds (5.5) the stories of both Hannukah and Christmas as an explanation for why people celebrate. And we have looked at the history of how christmas has developed (from the St Nicholas). I think this puts it all in perspective.

I really agree with you about "family and cultural tradition". It's just that little bit harder to maintain them when you've lost the belief bit that used to go with them. I kind of want to introduce 5 minutes of solemnity to it all - to kind of replace the church going bit that I had 9and appreciated, even when very young) I don't want to go all preachey on the girls, but I just think a few minutes' thinking how lucky we are to have firstly a loving family; and secondly lots of lovely things. Maybe saying "grace" before dinner. I'll think of something...

Why not start another thread entitled "ways to make your pagan/atheist christmas special?"

How about doing some sort of charity thing? I don't know what would work for your family but alongside all the presents do a family 'alernative' gift from someone like Oxfam, or maybe decide to sponsor a child, or do something in your local community? I know that they are obviously christian but the Salvation Army are often great at doing things like distributing gifts to needy families or that kind of thing. I think sometimes doing something for someone else is the most powerfully anti-selfish statement you can make and christmas is a great time to do that.

We are christians so the whole nativity story holds a lot of meaning for us but my dcs are also frighteningly materialistic and I am also looking for ways to make it more genuinely meaningful.

This thread really sums up how I feel about Xmas too. DP & I are not religious but want DD to understand what it is all about when she is old enough.

DP and I have discussed doing some sort of charity thing each year, ie buying a goat for a village in Africa or similar from oxfamunwrapped or somewhere, but as if it is from DD. She is only 10 months old so a bit young to "get" it, but as she grows older she will then choose the gift and hopefully we can then instil a sense of "goodwill to all men".

Hopefully we can strike a balance and take the emphasis away from consumerism without being hypocritical about our beliefs (or lack of them!)

That's why religion is often a Good Thing.
Can be a glue holding families and communities together.

Mears has a thread going looking for donations to piss poor women's maternity hospital in Malawi.
A donation would be a splendid way to spred some cheer.

God yes HW.It is miserable this year.
Everyone I know has a face like a cat's arse-including me.

Amiable - that's a nice idea. we sponsor a child in Zimbabwe - but we're not very good at it - we don't keep up much contact . so, this weekend - we'll have a card making letter writing session. and on christmas eve we'll sit round the computer and choose a goat-like gift. (can't believe I'm trying to start a family tradition that involves sitting round the computer, but there you go...)

Have just discovered, incidentally, that our celebration goes back to the Pagan fesitval that celebrates the re-birth of the sun. Well I suppose that gives something to hinge a pagan Christmas on.