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Christmas

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Original poster

Out of interest if you are secular, do you celebrate Xmas rather than Christmas?

347 replies

Marmiteandjamislush · 03/10/2014 09:37

Just for background, our family is modern traditional Christian, that is to say we observe all of the rules as they relate to the individual, so food, dress, personal actions, hygiene etc. but we do not impose our views on others or encourage others to join the faith. God gave people choice and we cannot influence that, we can only show our best selves. We do not believe in creationism, we believe God gave us the capacity to understand and practice science so science and God cannot be mutually exclusive, though we do believe that the process began with God. We are most definitely Not homophobic (really annoys me that a lot of Christians are automatically tarred with this brush) God made all people in his image and that includes people of all orientations. We accept that the Bible was of it's time and the language used expresses views that do not always hold true in our time, because God has revealed information to us that changes our understanding. We use it as a guiding hand rather than a rigid stick.

Anyway, to my point. I've seen quite a few threads on the site generally where people will say they celebrate Christmas, but then follow it up with something along the lines of 'but we don't do any religious nonsense.' I have no problem with people wanting to do the commercial/family aspects, but I do have an issue with people talking about Christmas, but having nothing to do with or even basic respect for Christ or Christians. Especially when a secular term exists. So as I said, out of interest do any of you do Xmas rather than Christmas?

OP posts:
Redhead11 · 03/10/2014 12:16

It sounds to me more and more like you belong to a cult or sect. Like Pike, i don't see where some of your beliefs fit into the new covenant that Jesus made with his death and resurrection. I also don't see how you could need more than 5 minutes to check multiple sources on the internet that would tell you that X is Chi. Learning you are wrong does not mean that you have to start using Xmas as opposed to Christmas. It is not earth-shaking.

If it is earth-shaking, i am very sorry for you. I think you might then want to extend your research beyond just what your church teaches you. Perhaps visiting some other denominations might help, as would talking with priests, ministers, rabbis, and other religious leaders. they will not object to this - it is part of their job description.

As for saying that KatieKaye could be anyone - well, what does that mean? Of course she is someone - we all are. We are the people that you asked a question of. Is your attitude towards her because she is clearly well educated and was able to answer your question in great depth (as did several others) and pointed out that the person who taught you this was wrong?

TheSecretCervix · 03/10/2014 12:19

hons

I totally agree. My post was replying to OP saying other posters had questioned her fundamentals.

KatieKaye · 03/10/2014 12:22

Do you really follow all the mosaic food laws, OP?

PetulaGordino · 03/10/2014 12:25

we all have rituals that are meaningful to us, even if they have their origins in something we don't now believe in.

neither dp nor i believe in father christmas but we do a stocking for each other because we enjoy choosing silly little presents and opening them together on christmas morning. it's a nostalgic bit of childhood that has carried through to adulthood

others might feel that they were an adult and that father christmas is for children only, so they wouldn't want a christmas stocking and extra tat cluttering up the place

Hakluyt · 03/10/2014 12:26

People in the Church hierarchy often sign letters "Yours in Xto" as a shortening for "Yours in Christ".

Honestly, OP- it's just a shorthand. I don't use it because I think it's ugly, and I celebrate Christmas as an atheist because it is on of our culture's times of celebration.

BaffledSomeMore · 03/10/2014 12:29

I'm not being facetious here this is a genuine question.
You say that God will reveal the answer but also say that you can't take the word of a parenting forum. Is there any reason why God couldn't choose to reveal the answer through dialogue on a parenting forum?
It reminded me of the joke about the man stuck on his roof in floods and God saying Well I sent a helicopter!

KatieKaye · 03/10/2014 12:34

Exactly, Baffled.

that point has been made more than once, but OP has steadfastly ignored it.

Redhead made a very interesting point about the possible controlling elements that may be behind OPs refusal to accept a simple fact that has no bearing on religion, other than it reveals her "teacher" was wrong.

Original poster
Marmiteandjamislush · 03/10/2014 12:38

Do you really follow all the mosaic food laws, OP?

Yes of course. Why just some, what would be the point?

Secondly, I believe the New covenant does not change everything, just repairs earlier damage to our relationship with God. This comes from my teaching on Matthew 5:17

Now, some people read it is as Jesus has fulfilled the duties of the OT so NT readers don't need to obey the dietary laws anymore. However, we believe that Jesus and God are connected but different, if Jesus was God the day of judgement would have happened already. So we believe that until then, we have to keep the OT laws re food etc. because judgement is still coming and OT is the word of God not Jesus. Jesus was sacrificed by God to make amends for all the violations of the OT, but the NT does not replace the OT it just builds a bridge back between us and God.

The next verse that causes confusion is Mark 7:18

And he said to them, “Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him.

However, Acts 9:11 Peter's vision tells us that Peter was hungry and in need of food, we believe that God does not want us to die and so where no food is available we must eat what is not usually allowed to stay healthy.

Can we please drop the 5 mins thing now? I have said countless times why I don't just do quick research on things.

OP posts:
Original poster
Marmiteandjamislush · 03/10/2014 12:40

KatieKaye, I have answered that. I will research the point but you implied all my teaching may be wrong and that is a big blow to take.

OP posts:
Hakluyt · 03/10/2014 12:42

"Can we please drop the 5 mins thing now? I have said countless times why I don't just do quick research on things."

But some things only need 5 minutes. Did you see my point about church people signing themselves "Yours in Xto?" The Pope does it- as does the AB of C.

Original poster
Marmiteandjamislush · 03/10/2014 12:44

I take that point Hakluyt, but I need to process some bigger things which takes longer.

OP posts:
Original poster
Marmiteandjamislush · 03/10/2014 12:45

I need to feed my kids. May check back later but busy.

OP posts:
Redhead11 · 03/10/2014 12:45

I don't think KatieKaye implied at all that all your teaching is wrong. And you were the one who brought up the 5 minute thing. Quick research on something as well known as this is just as valid as taking months or years to check something.

It is interesting to see that Baffled also thinks you received the answer you were looking for, but because it is not the one you wanted, you are rejecting it.

KatieKaye · 03/10/2014 12:45

People are asking about the 5 minute thing because there is no need to spend any more than 5 minutes. This is not a complex matter - it is well-established fact, albeit fact you were unaware of. Why make a mountain out of a molehill? Its a fact you can verify quickly and with minimum effort. Why do you find that possibility so hard to believe?

I asked about the food, a) because they were set out in very different times and b) because most people enjoy things like lasagne, spaghetti bolagnese with parmesan, a roast dinner followed by ice cream etc. Your family never eats these things

thatstoast · 03/10/2014 12:47

This is interesting. I'm in the UK and culturally christian but now an atheist. I always thought that X was short for Christ because it looks like a cross. I didn't know it related to greek letters. One of my ex-colleagues posted on facebook last year about how Xmas was offensive to Christians so I'm glad to know the history behind it.

I think it's fair to say that religious experience has a huge influence on people's behaviours. Obviously I have no problem believing Katie's commentary on Xmas, even though she could be anybody! For the OP it isn't as simple as taking something like that at face value. Likewise, I was really shocked that the OP said the UK was a secular country. Maybe to someone who is a Christian it might seem like a secular country. To an atheist like me, who got segregated and locked in a classroom as a teenager because I wouldn't participate in morning worship at state school I see Christianity in everyday life. It's really ingrained. Christmas is part of that. So yes, I do celebrate Christmas/Xmas because most people in the UK do and I don't want to miss out on that. I know people of other faiths, Hindu for example, who do the same because you just can't escape it and actually people think you're odd if you don't play along.

KatieKaye · 03/10/2014 12:52

As said above by Redhead I most certainly did not imply all your "teaching" was wrong and I strongly resent that implication. That is nothing more than your imagination running rampant and wilfull misinterpretation.

I said your "teacher" was wrong about "teaching" the one instance (X not standing for Christ in Xmas) that you gave an example of. As I have no concept of what else he or she may have "taught" you, I could not make that type of assumption. I strong object to you making things up about me.

Again - there is no need for complex research on this very simple matter. Why has it "shaken the foundation" of your belief?

Original poster
Marmiteandjamislush · 03/10/2014 12:53

Have you never heard of Soy alternatives KateKaye?

OP posts:
exexpat · 03/10/2014 12:54

Going back to the original question, quite apart from the mistaken assumption that Xmas is a 'secular' word, the OP seems to think that atheists/non-Christians should not use any word that relates to God/Christ if they do not believe in it, even if it is a commonly used term which is not just used in a narrowly religious context these days.

So as an atheist should I stop saying 'goodbye' to people, because it is actually a contraction of 'God be with you'? I suppose I could use farewell instead. Or talk about going on holidays (holy days) because there is nothing holy about my vacations?

FickleByNurture · 03/10/2014 12:56

Putting my tuppence in. An awful lot of Orthodox Christians still practice the hygiene/food laws - it doesn't mean that the OP is part of some weird sect and i do think people have been a bit judgy.

My DBiL is Muslim and he calls Christmas Christmas too. It's a cultural celebration in the western world and, Xmas or Christmas, both meanings have become dislocated from the original etymology.

Hakluyt · 03/10/2014 12:57

OP- I find it very worrying that discovering that one tiny part of what you were taught- and a purely linguistic part at that- was wrong has unsettled you to the point of questioning everything that you have been taught. This suggests that you have been taught for a long time never to question anything- and that's not a healthy way to live. The Christmas/Xmas thing is not a matter of belief or faith, but of semantics.

UpduffedFatty · 03/10/2014 12:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hakluyt · 03/10/2014 12:59

Sorry- pressed send too soon- so no reason for you to question the ret of your belief system. Unless you want to- and this has been the launch pad you needed........

BaffledSomeMore · 03/10/2014 12:59

I am still curious about the issue of which media can be used.

Original poster
Marmiteandjamislush · 03/10/2014 13:01

Thanks Fickle I have taken the Xmas thing, I did at the start. Can we drop it now.

OP posts:
KatieKaye · 03/10/2014 13:01

Of course I have heard of soy alternatives.
Why would you think I had not?
And why do you ask?
A roast dinner is generally taken to refer to roast meat, as do the other two meals I mentioned (which may have vegetarian alternatives but are accepted as meat based unless qualified) , so I fail to understand why you are bringing soy into the equation. But I take it you'd never have mashed potatoes with meat?

Expat - most people don't really bother at all about which words you use as long as they understand what you are talking about, I've found! And IMO it is pretty small-minded to object to anyone using these words whether or not they are Christian.