Guardian article: "They’re doing to America what they did to Christianity"

[Catullus5]

I've read the Guardian for most of my life. I'm not, however, a fan of its coverage of Christianity - it comes with a sneer that has increased over time, a racist one which says that belief in God is acceptable in a brown person for cultural reasons, but is not acceptable in a white person, who ought to know better.

But I think this is a very good article and kudos for the Guardian in publishing it.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2025/nov/23/america-christian-evangelical-discrimination-immigration

The tl/dr is that in the US mainstream Protestantism that had a respectable enough understanding of Christian responsibility towards one's neighbour has been replaced with a hyper-individualistic, bombastic, selfish pseudo-Evangelicalism.

I think that's fair enough but I'll add a second thing. The Internet has germinated a set of values that arose in California in the 60s as a reinterpretation of ideas from Eastern religions. This set of values are all about following one's own way, having one's own truth and respecting other people's own ways- and leaving them to it, ie, individualism. Small wonder that some of such people aren't embarrassed about having become obscenely rich while others struggle, but more importantly the growing churches have completely failed to spot this heresy.

I'd be very interested in the thoughts of people who want to take the time to read it.

I don't have time to read the article this morning but I would really like to come back to it this evening so I'm place marking!

I will definitely be reading this later!

I find the Guardian generally sneery in nature. Not a fan. My take on the very lengthy article is, the writer hates Donald Trump and Elon Musk, and American politics. It is a preachy bit of writing provoked by his clear contempt. It is not a ‘Christian article’ per se, but more a long political and personal rant. He isn’t telling us what he is doing with Jesus, but merely moaning about, and judging others - there is nothing new to enlighten us. 🍿🥤

Oh goodness. I will say I think it's almost impossible for Brits to comprehend just how different the US and Americans are from us, as well as their Christianity. I now have a bit of insight into it as my church is based in the US and my pastor (a theologian) is American as are all the other people there (very small house church). I also have a lot of American friends online. They're great but they are very different and some things they say are shocking.

My pastor definitely supports Trump and is a Republican. He is a conservative Christian. Politics there is so divided and the strong religious base is something we don't have in the UK. There's very much a feeling of 'them and us' or Democrats vs Republicans. I can't see that sort of mentality in the UK, I think sometimes we just can't be bothered with politics and many of us are tactical or shifting voters, not particularly loyal to any party. Personallly I can't abide Trump (nor could I abide Kamala Harris) so I don't get the appeal, but I do think Trump is likely the better choice for President given what he has to deal with. Is he a good, moral man? Nope. Will God use him regardless? Of course. He is there for a purpose, I absolutely believe that, just as Putin is also where he is for a purpose, distasteful as that is.

I asked my pastor some time ago, if Jesus returns today how many Christians in the US do you think would actually be saved? He thought around 15%! He thinks very many so-called Christians in the US aren't saved at all. He'd absolutely agree with you OP re the trend towards individuality and the influence of Eastern religions on Christianity. New Age and New Thought. Prosperity gospel (Trump's pastor is one of those preachers). Wokism, Critical Theory. All these things undermine Christianity and are Satanic. My pastor formed his own church due to the falling away of many churches from preaching the true gospel. He said in the US today in academia it's very difficult to be a Christian and to keep one's job, especially if you believe in the fundamental Christian beliefs - six day creation, the Flood, literal interpretation of the Bible, etc. Schools, he said, are soaked in wokism. His own kids are home-schooled. He and his wife are both highly qualified so very able to do that, but it would be hard if you weren't.

I can tell the writer is a liberal and a Democrat, a year ago I wouldn't have known, but it's clear now having learned more about the country! This is the trouble when you mix religion and politics, you end up with politics corrupting religion!

I can recommend Kristen Kobe du Mez's book 'Jesus and John Wayne' - it does exactly what the article does, but in much more depth - traces the rise of the Christian right in the US, from the early twentieth century muscular christianity, through to when John Wayne became a Christian and how he was then co-opted' by evanglical christianity as a poster figure for this type of Christianity. It looks at Billy Graham, James Dobson and Focus on the Family, and all that, right through to Trump today. Definitely worth a read of you want to understand some of what's going on in Christianity in the US today and how that all started. Trump is not a 'new' thing, come out of the blue, he's the latest in a line of evangelical, Christian nationalist figures, and its actually no surprise that some of that is coming over here (Tommy Robinson and his ilk).

I'm not sure I'd call belief in 6-day creation a fundamental Christian belief. Fundamentalist with a capital F, perhaps, but 'fundamental' meaning 'basic'? No.

Interesting article and it is very positive that the Guardian published such a thoughtful piece. The book ‘Jesus and John Wayne’ could be some post Christmas reading as it is a but full on just now. Thank you.

A literal interpretation of scripture with a six day creation are not fundamental Christian beliefs. They might be core beliefs in conservative Christianity but not all Christians are conservative. In England conservative Christianity is in the minority in the mainstream denominations. Other denominations are, of course, available! Many of them have their roots in the USA.

Perhaps we have different takes on the word 'fundamental'. When you say belief in a 6-day creation isn't a fundamental Christian belief, what do you mean @liverpoolnana @mostlydrinkstea ?

I mean what I said. A literal interpretation of scripture with a six day creation is not one of the central tenants of Christianity. My experience of chatting and worshipping with really very conservative Christians is that it is central to their faith. I’m not conservative.

Interesting. I didn't think about it too much earlier in my Christian walk, didn't ponder on the details of it. Now I'm studying it again in depth, there's really so much in that first chapter of Genesis. I now believe in a literal 6 day creation (I know some people would find that crazy), and read Genesis as history not allegory. But that's off-topic for this thread.

Thanks everyone for the interesting and varied replies.

I will point out - and I'm glad no one picked up on this - that I do not want to put the boot into Evangelical Christianity. It was the Evangelicals who got the slave trade abolished though this fact now seems to be brushed under the carpet like the slave trade itself used to be.

(just another preliminary point - if I were asked for the fundamentals of Christianity I'd probably point to the Creeds).

It's the weekend so I re-read the article. Here are some further thoughts that I'd be grateful for a comment on.

I am very interested in this topic because I think values in the West are coming to a point of crisis and, as is so often the case, we are seeing this in the United States first. I've grown up and have lived my life a Christian and I've always taken this seriously - but also as a pretty typical liberal type. But what I have personally noticed, especially over the last 3 years or so, is that I find less and less guidance about what is right from mainstream society.

Why is this? I think it's because values are splitting into two camps. 'Wokism' (though I will say intersectionality) is one of those things. Every value system has problems, and the problem with intersectionality is that it ascribes value due to group membership if that group is recognised as marginalised. The origin of this idea is Marxist and I don't think there's anything controversial about this really. It's helpful but limited - it may encourage you some insight into the background of a person but it implicitly limits a person to the collection of group identities the person holds and what level of favourable treatment they are entitled to expect from you.

The other camp is the reaction to the above, and that's the camp the article is addressing. I didn't find the article sneery (a welcome change from the Guardian) and my view is that it listed many things that Trump and his acolytes are doing that is (from a Christian point of view) objectively bad. I thought the point about Christian leaders joining the civil rights movement in the 1960s was a point well made: their Christian intuition made them realise the must support it. The same happened in South Africa re apartheid. The point that I think the article makes really well is that the cult of hyper-individualism that has emerged in the US has infiltrated Christianity. As I said above, I think the roots of this aren't Christian at all. It's the kind of self-worship that Christianity has traditionally condemned.

Both of the above camps have emerged against a retreating liberalism that thought it was enough that people chose how to live their own lives and their own values were no one else's business. But I think that assumed common values that actually belonged to an earlier time when Christianity was institutionally dominant. That time is fading into history now, even though the Church is no longer reducing in numbers, and society is fracturing.

I guess all of that just highlights that in these End Times, those of us who love the Lord our God will all our mind, all our heart and all our soul must remain vigilant; stay true to the Gospel and be wise enough to see wolves in sheep’s clothing.

Human beings, including politicians and those who would rule over us, will continue to do what people have done since Adam and Eve. There is nothing new under the sun. The Lord God Almighty is the only true judge of a person’s heart and mind - including the deepest darkest things we try and keep hidden from even ourselves.

Those of us who are disciples of Christ Jesus can only continue to pray for those who are lost, pray for the nations, pray for ‘leaders’, pray for the Church, pray against the rise of false religions, pray for healing and God’s mercy, giving praise and thanks from a grateful heart - and continue to stand on the Bible, proclaiming God’s Truth to those who have eyes to see and ears to hear. 🙏