Can you help me understand Christian points of view here?

[GenuineQuestion2025]

Help, Christian mners.

I run an activity for my son and some other kids once a week. Three other families, of whom one is Catholic and one is (not sure what particular branch of) evangelical Chinese/ Korean Presbyterian.

We usually sit round having a cuppa and a chat after the activity, while the kids play outside.

Yesterday the Catholic parent and the Presbyterian parent were discussing a local (Presbyterian) school where the head has been put on leave by the Board of Trustees, for openly homophobic, antagonistic behaviour towards LGBTQ+ students who don't fit her evangelical Christian worldview. Said parents were saying that they couldn't understand what the problem was or why she'd been put on leave, as these students are "a major problem, leading other students astray" and "mentally unstable" and have clearly been exposed to the wrong things by their parents, to even know about such things as being gay, at high school age. Catholic parent opined that transgender and gay people have huge mental problems, no surprise because they're going against the way things should be. Presbyterian parent refused to tell her 10yo daughter (who interrupted the conversation) what the parents had been talking about, just saying that there are wicked people in the world with bad ideas.

Is this actually what some churches teach? Would these view be mainstream in the Catholic or Chinese/korean Presbyterian churches?

We attend a local Presbyterian church (strong academic/socially liberal/ musical focus), and sing in an Anglican church, as musicians from an atheist background, and we would be pretty shocked to hear this kind of thing ever voiced there. The choirs involve multiple LGBTQ+ individuals who are welcomed and in some cases who have been there for decades.

The world is a very diverse place. I'd love to understand these parents a bit better. Though, having made my views clear, I'm really hoping we can steer clear of such discussions in future.

Even Christians are human and individuals and hold a range of world views.
I think you need to have a discussion with these people if you really want to find out how they think

Good point! As witnessed on this board - wide range of views.

Are you a Christian, OP? Hard to tell from your post because you mention going to a church but nothing about the God side of it, and about coming from an atheist background so I'm not sure. Doesn't matter to me either way but if you are then you must have noticed not all Christians believe exactly the same as you?

Also, I think its perfectly ok for a child not to be told the subject of a parent's conversation that they have interrupted. This is regardless of the topic...it might have been "What's for tea?"- you can't demand someone tells you what they are talking about with their peers! Basic manners.

@GenuineQuestion2025 Can you help me understand Christian points of view here?

No, sorry. Impossible to know the minds and hearts of others from a second hand conversation. As a previous poster said - best to ask the individuals involved, especially if your questions are being asked in good faith. 🍿

Yes, of course I know all Christians aren't the same. However I was trying to get a bit of traction on understanding where these people's views are coming from, since they're very, very far off mainstream, where we live. As Catholicism and (whatever-type-it-is)Presbyterianism are a large part of these people's lives I was assuming that the views may have been taught by the respective churches. Thus asking if this would be mainstream views in those churches.

Given the volatility of people's views on LGBTQ+ generally, and the negativity of the views expressed in my house, and the fact I then politely said I didn't agree with these views, I don't want to probe too hard!

Yes, my questions are really being asked in good faith, because I actually genuinely don't understand how highly educated, very widely-travelled people living where we do, aged either side of 50, could hold such views.

Again, best to go ask them then.

All the best.

If you genuinely want to understand their viewpoints as others have said, you would need to ask them directly. You could also use Google for a general understanding :- type catholic perspective on transgenderism, for example; I am sure you will find lots of articles to read there. Pope Francis has openly spoken on this issue in the past.

It's interesting that you stated I actually genuinely don't understand how highly educated, very widely-travelled people living where we do, aged either side of 50, could hold such views.
Perhaps you could share your views on the matter? In your opinion should a highly educated, well travelled adult hold the same opinion as you on the issue of transgenderism?

OP, I'm interested in your "either side of 50" comment?

Do you think people suddenly change their views at 50? Do you think there were no liberal or judgemental people before 1975, or did some seismic change suddenly make all the under 50s have a new world view?

I'm neither RC, nor Chinese/Korean Presbyterian so can't offer you an opinion on that curious question, but I am either over or under 50, so I do hold a personal view.

The views that you have heard are fairly typical of the conservative wing of Christianity in the UK. In the conversation you heard those views aren't expressed with any theological nuance, but are what they are. To justify their views the Presbyterians will be quoting passages from the Bible which they may believe to be inerrant. The RCs will quote tradition. Don’t underestimate the influence of culture. In my last church I found that my very theologically liberal congregation could be socially conservative as they were mostly over 80 and homosexual acts were illegal until the late sixties.

My experience of the mainstream denominations in the UK is that the conservative wings are the minority. The exception are the Baptists who are congregational so just because I know two more liberal and three more conservative congregations isn’t indicative of all of the UK. It varies by congregation.

I’m not sure that helps but there we are.

To be clear, i recognise that not everyone will hold my views.

However, we live in a country (not the UK) where these anti-LGBTQ+ views are very much non-mainstream, where we have many openly gay and transgender public figures, and where expressing such anti-LGBTQ+ views openly is regarded as extremely socially transgressive, at lest in my generation, those roughly 10 years either side of 50.

The point about someone being well travelled, well educated and 50-ish is that by this stage of life with that much exposure to other people behind them (both have lived in multiple foreign countries for long periods, across different life stages, school university, working, having families, and have specifically settled in our country), I find it genuinely surprising that these people, who profess a strong Christian belief, are so intolerant of other people.

I'm still finding your questioning slightly disingenuous. You must know that in many ways having any Christian beliefs is a bit outside of the norm. And within those Christian beliefs there's a wide range of specifics.

Believing Jesus Christ is God and was raised from the dead isn't something everyone believes (whether or not they're well educated and well travelled!).

Christians don't tend to just believe whatever everyone in the culture they're in believes.

It's like you're just trying to make these particular people seem odd. Or stir up a divisive debate. Gladly that hasn't happened and I'm sorry to say you just look a bit silly, if that's what you were trying to do.

@ChristmasStars Agreed.

I think the original poster would be better putting their original post, (and their subsequent comments) which they said was done ‘in good faith’ in philosophy and religion. Somebody else, elsewhere, made the observation that when a new poster poses a seemingly innocent ‘genuine question’ usually, there is another agenda… This board, for Christian Mumsnetters is not the place to debate with unbelievers.

@GenuineQuestion2025 i would again genuinely urge you to go back to the people you are now criticising, and pose your observations in the form of genuine questions, to them. In addition, you could read a Bible to see what the Lord God Almighty instructs. The philosophy and religion board is the place to debate, if you object to what it says. There are many, many threads making similar observations to yours.

Just to assist you with the Christian stance: God gives us the free-will to live our lives just as we want and to turn away from Him if we would rather go it alone to do our own thing in whatever way we want. God is not stopping us. Consenting adults can do whatever they want, in whatever way they want. Within humans’ laws also, there is no stopping us. ( I am bound to make the wry observation that we only need to see the state of our world, to see where that is getting us. )

As with humans’ laws we are all accountable for our own actions. We can squeal in objection, but we have to accept there may be consequences to our actions.

Abba Father loves all human kind, but like any loving parent it grieves Him when we insist on doing things our way, when He has already given us some pretty clear clues about what is best for our lives. This is not intolerance, it is love. The Lord hates the sin, but loves the sinner … this is exactly why, for those who genuinely see the error of their ways, He has made a way back to Him through our Lord Jesus.

Btw, in case you were not aware, no born-again-in-Spirit-and-Truth Believer is perfect. Every single one of us is a constant work in progress. Maybe what you see through your particular lens is just ordinary struggling folk who live in this world but who are not of it.

Very well put @Thegreatestoftheseislove