The rise of The Christian Patriarchy movement and hatred of feminism in the Church thoughts ?

[WalkingTheMiddlePath]

Mostly in the US, but creeping over here in some of my Christian circles . I'm fine with pastors or preachers having an opinion but my issue is when they add things to the bible claiming them to be scripture for all women today.

I don't have an issue with a girl deciding she wants to be a keeper of the home and not go to college, or a choosing to have an unlimited number of children but nowhere in the bible is that mandated for all women in Christendom . I am seeing that the many Christians are becoming against feminists and considering that we aren't real Christians. Being called lukewarm or a jezebel really hurts. I've had religious trauma and Scrupulosity/Religious OCD, was brought up quite fundamentalist (when in was born again I threw all that out and went back to basically Jesus Loves Me this I Know kind of faith) to help my healing and avoid taking my life (don't want To be that low again).

I'm a bible believing brought up Baptist lady, but consider myself non-denom. I don't really see myself as a denomination just another of Christ's followers . I've been born again and had the holy spirit and water immersion baptism. I'm not particularly woke or trendy. I just think God doesn't have one set path for all women and it's ok to choose a less traditional route and glorify Christ in that.

I'm not seeing this at all, happily.

(Ordinary Cof E person.)

I currently attend a lovely Holy spirit filled Anglican church near me. We are seeing people being saved and healed and set free emotionally from addictions etc. They are friendly and welcoming. I love it.

@WalkingTheMiddlePath My take is this: for Christians, we are all broken and failing human beings trying to navigate the narrow path. Ultimately, God is our only Sovereign Judge. Only He sees the deepest darkest secrets of all our minds and hearts. Christians will account for themselves when we stand in front of the Bema Seat.

For me, God is Alpha and Omega; beginning and end; unchanging - His Word is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. His manual for our lives will not always align with ‘the world’. I trust Him, not the world, and that is good enough for me on my own Faith walk. He must despair at petty squabbles and egos which take people’s gaze away from Him.

Thanks for this . I guess these things could distract us from the simple truth of the gospel if we let them. It's not that I would consider someone who is pro-patriarchy or anti feminist to be less of a Christian than me, it's just that if we care about the integrity of God's word we won't add to it by claiming unbiblical things like all women are under the authority of all men (bible only says that wives are under the authority of their husbands). Or just going to college and being a career woman is a sin. Or saying being childfree by choice is a sin.

It upsets me when people claim things are in the word of God that aren't . It make it out that God is going to send someone to hell for not having the right beliefs on these issues. God isn't like that . He is love and we are saved by grace not by performance . Nobody is in hell for their personal position on gender roles . If so God would have addressed these issues.

These Christians patriarch sits are the one whose values are aligned with the world not the bible though not us Christians who don't believe in gender roles

I don't consider those people's sins worse than mine but I'm concerned that vulnerable young women could fall victim to the same horrific religious abuse I did . Where I wasn't allowed rights or say no to my father even once I became an adult . That kind of abuse is very evil . I have found it helpful to listen to other survivors like the Duggar sisters.

I am so sorry to read of your experience. (((Hug)))

Thanks. Yeah I thought it would help me to post in here with some other Christian ladies who "" get it " and can help remind me to keep my focus on Jesus and the gospel. I'm glad I did post here.

Women prophets were present in the Old Testament and the New Testament. A prophet means that someone proclaims a divine message from God. In the Old Testament, Miriam was a prophetess (Exodus 15-20) "Then Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron.... Sing to the LORD, For He has triumphed gloriously! The horse and its rider He has thrown into the Sea!"
So to was Deborah in the Old Testament a prophetess (Judges 4:4). Deborah was a prophetess and judge and she led the children of Israel to peace for forty years by her prophesies she gave to Barak to go to battle against Sisera. Huldah was also a prophetess (2 Kings 22:14) (2 Chronicles 34:22). Huldah was sought out by King Josiah to authenticate the Book of Law. In the Old Testament Noadiah is also a female prophetess (Nehemiah 6:14). Herbert Lockyer in his book "All the Women of the Bible" (pg 41) describes prophets and prophetesses as being the media between God and his people Israel in the Old Testament.

In the New Testament, Anna (Luke 2:36) was referred to as a prophetess. So to did Philip the evangelist have four daughters who were prophetesses (Acts 21:3).

The gift of prophecy is one of the eight spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit. There are differences in ministries and activities, but God works in all of these gifts (1 Corinthians 12-6). Through prophecy, the church becomes edified "But he who prophesies edifies the church"(1 14 Corinthians:3-4). Women today still can have this ministry gift although it seems to be less used today "And God has appointed these in the church, first the apostles, second prophets, third teachers" (1 Corinthians 12 28). There are plenty of other roles for women to do in the church.

I think the main issue some people have is that there was no 12 women among the 12 disciples. I am not sure why that was. Today women are supported in most church’s I would say and time has moved on somewhat and there are to women who have been called to this role of ministry and consecrated to. They can be richly blessed in Holy Spirit gifts and that means that Jesus is supporting them. I have three women rectors at my Anglican church. These three women happen to be very good to at the fruits of the spirit to like love, peace and modesty.
In Jesus’ time there were other women who turned out to be Holy women who supported the church like Joanna, Priscilla and Phoebe.

Joanna Luke 8: 1-3 23:55 24:10
Priscilla Acts 18:2 18 26 Romans 16:3 1 Corinthians 16:19 2 Timothy 4:19
Phoebe Romans 16 1: 2
In Galatians 3.28 says that there is no man or woman before God and that we are all equal before God.

I am myself a non demontional Christian and just see myself as a follower of Christ. I was baptised in a Catholic church as a young child, I said my own vows and am happy that I did that. I was given the gifts of the Holy Spirit at 17 as a female and served in the ministry briefly as a woman and to a ethnic minority woman who had a neurodiversity and was struggling with an eating disorder caused by my upbringing Jesus can walk with all of us and take us on our own journey.

I used to say that I was not a feminist, but there are all different types like liberation feminist theologies which is about gender justice for both women and men. I used to call myself a egalitarian. I think that is like an equalist-that we are all the same. In Galatians 3.28 says that there is no man or woman before God and that we are all equal before God.

Sorry, haven't seen anything of this.

I love this post thanks. Very helpful contribution to this topic . I personally believe the whole patriarchy and biblical womanhood movement is cultural.

It's a bit of a worrying trend that may well begin to make its way over here. Things that start in the US do generally end up taking root here at some point. I would recommend 'Jesus and John Wayne' by Kristen Kobes du Mez, which is a reallly interesting read about the rise of the Christian (masculine) right in the US, and I can see threads of that over here in the UK as well. Tommy Robinson and his ilk trying to claim Christianity for right-wing nationalism being part of that.

I think there are different ways of interpreting the bible and those will then inform your world view and how you think people should be treated and behave. Those who take all of the bible literally (though I would argue that they acutally don't, often) are those who posit the 'women should be silent in church' argument and disagree that women can lead, preach or be ordained (for example). Or you can recognise that a lot of the new testament - certainly Paul's letters - were written to specific churches, with specific issues, at specific times, and while there are certainly universal truths in them; about salvation, God's grace, God's character and so on, some of the detail about women having their hair covered (for example) was in response to particular issue at that time in that church and (I don't think) shouldn't necessarily be seen as being relevant today. Where you then draw the line between what is or isn't relevant is the issue, and clearly people disagree on that. But I do think that the rise of masculine Christianity and the calls for women to live 'biblically' (whatever that means) is worrying, and I think for me the question is why are men doing this? I'm sceptical that it's about sincerely pursuing holiness - and I would therefore also question how they define holiness - and wonder if it isn't more about some other agenda. But I'm a sceptic. And also about to start the discernment process for ordination, so perhaps I'm also biased!

Lovely post Catinabeanbag.
I think that's a very measured and sensible way of looking at the subject. It certainly echoes my views.

And good luck with discernment. It's a year since my DD went through it, and it's certainly an intense time.

I agree with what you said @Catinabeanbag and very much doubt when such men talk about women behaving "biblically" they have Deborah or even less Jael in mind. There are of course many other examples of Biblical womanhood who I also think would not pass muster with them.

A great many of the Pauline epistles, in which this brand of Christianity puts much store, were written to address matters of concern and as guidance in what was a very new Church, not as commandments for the ages.

Or Judith.
"Ooh look, an enemy. Let's sneak in and off with his head!"

That made me 😂🤣

But yes, regarding the enemy, I am reminded of Jesus’s words - Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns

No problem. Most men don't have the money to keep a wife at home

I think its not worth getting too worried about Christian trends in the US.

Yes, there are many areas of life where the UK is influenced by the US, but also many areas where we are so very different in both our history and culture that we are unlikely to follow US trends. In things like gun rights, abortion, our racial history etc it makes very little sense to try to transfer US culture and thought onto the UK.

The US church is politically powerful, and politically right-wing, with large numbers who are culturally Christian but non-practising. In the UK, Christianity is politically weak, quite often left-leaning, and very few people claim affiliation with Christianity unless they actually believe and practise it.

In my own Christian circles I don't see any evidence of anti-feminism, though I do see a lot of the same unconscious bias that we see in society.

E.g. our minister has preached a sermon recently on how women hold an equal role in leadership. He has also recently made a plea from the front for some ladies to help with catering for a church event - but to audible muttering of "what about the men?" from the congregation!