Baptism and baptising people you know

[Justmerach]

I would like to know some of your opinions. I am going to a family wedding for two days on Friday and Sunday.

Some family members who have not been baptised will be attending.
I have been trying to get some interested in baptism. They are all Christians. One pulled out from doing some time last year and have not done so. We are family. I just care and about the next life beyond.

Now one has children and the book of Acts says the head of the family can save the household to the next world and beyond. The prayers of the head of a household for a family, can help others in that family to get through to the next kingdom (Acts 16: 32-24) and then it called upon them the need for baptism.

The Holy Spirit can also help them in so many other ways to. I would also like them to be a part of the Body of Christ.

Now I know having a service is much better but one in particular I cannot one attending any for 20 years or so and a lot could happen till then. They are more vulnerable in life and have a child. They told me they think they have autism and I cared for them growing up and people tried to get them involved in what they shouldn't, but they are ok now, but this would help them. If possible I could justify doing it in this case. They are 28.

My brother has children of his own and could make time but might find it hard to make the time and think that he may be expected to attend church and might not be ready.

If the other one wished so I could ask them as they were meant to have immersion and then paused it and thought that the sort of service was not quite right for them.

Now I have been confirmed and water was blessed to make it spirit water. It was prayed over. Is this the same spirit water for baptism. They used it for me and my vows were for the fruits of the spirit to display in me so I think it may be the same. The vows themself seem short to say and no more than 2 mins. I still have a lot of this water remaining and decided to save some for my family for this.

I plan to surprise the 28 year at least and say do you accept Jesus etc and if they say yes just baptise him.

Tbh I have ddid this to someone else and they felt it they said. This was different as they grew up in another country and their rector said they cannot do it again and couldn't confirm when so young what happened.

i was 8 when I had mine with light water touch and it stood with me to 17 when i was given the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I don't remember much of a preparation service being this age, but it helped me in my life.

I am not a minister. I have served in the ministry at 17 and attend church today as a parishoner in an Anglican church as a non demontional Cristian. i have now been Confirmed and Recieved into the church now by vows.

I know some people get baptised in rivers to etc.

Your views would be interesting to read. What more could you think you could get out of it by attending preparation..I did this for my confirmation but I felt ready and was looking to go towards a conscreated life taking the vows further.

Not within my experience, I'm afraid. All the baptisms I have attended have had prior thought, consideration and a searching of the heart before making this commitment to Jesus.

I have no idea if it constitutes a "proper" baptism. I'm not sure I'd be at all thrilled if someone sprung it on me. My DH was baptised as an adult, the year before we got married, and he really felt the importance of the ceremony and the promises he made.

Thank you FuzzyPuffling I think based on what you wrote that I will not do this for two of them for sure and let them go through the process. They are old enough to make their own decisions and can do this when ready. They are 21 and 42. I gave the 21 year old a baptism chain last year and a Bible and he stil has these and hopefully he will do this in his own time. His parents are mature Christians and would like him to do this so hopefully it will work out.

Now my other nephew who is 28 I think it will benefit him and don't want to delay it for 20 years. I have asked him before if he would like me to do it but he never replied. I will ask him if he wants it and then accepts Jesus and the rest of the vows needed and proceed only if it is ok with him of course.

I don't believe you need to be baptised to go to heaven (if you believe in heaven) or to be a 'proper' Christian. Many people do, of course, but lots don't, and I (personally) wouldn't think God would hold it against anyone if they did or didn't. I think it's generally more a step the person takes for themselves, to publicly say they are Christians and want to live in a Christ-like way, and I think that last bit is what's important - your personal relationship with God and how than impacts on how you live your life and treat other people, not whether you've been baptised or not.

Thank you for your thoughts, I find them very interesting. I haven't heard anyone else explain such a thought so well.

I will say Gulshan Eshler she was an Indian Muslim woman who converted to Christanity. She had healing and then she was not baptised but her spirit directed her to be baptised and she later went to do it suggesting that for her it was necessary. Her book became a bestseller doing work for God.

I know of one person who claims have got the Holy Spirit seeming like not any mentioned water like at Penetcost day it was fire and tongues and no water was mentioned or may be they was already baptised with the spirit water before this.

I would say unless you were against it may be don't take chances, but it was very interesting to read your thoughts.

I was wondering what you may think of the scripture below that point out a need for baptism. I know in some lower economic countries they may not be able to get to a church..but may be takes geography into account to and will help them in other ways. They could use their own water and local person does etc or something else.

Why it is called for further than the scripture mentioned earlier-

We are born with our spirit which also contains the Spirit of God (Psalm 104-30) "Thy sendest forth thy spirit, they are created." From the Father- " But know that the Lord hath set apart him that is godly for himself: the Lord will hear when I call unto him" (Psalm 4). Being Baptised with more of the Holy Spirit at Baptism (which Jesus laid the way for) allows one to grow in the Spirit and become more fully ourselves emulating the attributes of God. This is the presence of God with us here and now and is a third attribute of God. However, the main source of the Divine Essence resides in Heaven.

Jesus stated that, "Truly, truly, I tell you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God” (John 3:5) (Acts 16 31-34).
Matthew 28:18-20 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" For further scripture messages see Romans 6:4 also.

Acts 2:38-41 describes Peter's call for repentance and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit
The Bible closely links Baptism to the giving of the Holy Spirit (Luke 3:16).

Baptism goes far beyond the receiving of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit to renewing promises which marks the beginning of a new journey with God. Baptism is a symbolic act whereby the believer portrays the death, burial and resurrection to a new life in the Spirit (Romans 6: 1-4).

............
This is the person who said their family got the Holy Spirit through no water mentioned and I do not dispute this at all.
I know my Dad recieved the Holy Spirit he went for a walk up the country road near where we lived which was on top of a hill and a whirlwind came and encircled him and he started speaking in tongues at such a speed he didn't think it was possible, and all he could say was "Yspryd Glân" (Holy Spirit. Literal translation = "Clean Spirit").
When he came back he was clearly a changed man!

Technically, anyone can baptise with a Trinitarian formula with any water whatever but it is usually done when there are no other options and for infants. I don't get the feeling from what you're saying that this adult man is giving active consent and full understanding, if this is so

Now my other nephew who is 28 I think it will benefit him and don't want to delay it for 20 years. I have asked him before if he would like me to do it but he never replied. I will ask him if he wants it and then accepts Jesus and the rest of the vows needed and proceed only if it is ok with him of course.

It does seem to be more about what you think is right than he is actually seeking, at the moment. Perhaps having some conversations with him about what you believe and if he is receptive, pointing him in the direction of church would be better.

For my 2p worth I don't think you have to be baptised to be saved, and I don't believe it has to be with special water, but I do believe it's a step of obedience and a witness. In the bible nobody did it with special water, it was done with whatever water was at hand, and seems to be by immersion not by sprinkling.

So I think baptism is more about a heart response from a person and them wanting to take a step of obedience. I'm not sure it's something we can really do to someone else like this.

Thank you Uricon2 and ChristmasStars.

Tbh I am 52 now and Jesus has given me some healing in my life. I have had a chronic eating disorder anorexia for the most part. I am also diagnosed with autism. At some points I have nearly lost my life and been at a life threatening BMI for some time. I am doing much better now, but at this point my autism needs to be managed by God and my physical too has had an impact from the complications of anorexia in over 30 years duration and I don't expect any healing from that like for my GI and my kidneys have improved..but they are not quite what they was. Perhaps to that condition gives me complications the autism. Just a few months back I was in acute kidney 195 failure again and my nervous system although Christ healed it for vibration a different matter..the situation with is bizarre and whacky the autism. I got an overwhelming that God helped with and gave me intervention on the spot in church. It is better but it just mending the damage...I am coping but I don't know if my journey may be shorter with him and my family so I start getting worried now. I should be alright..

Also apart from the eternal life....with his son as the protection the Holy Spirit can give I was worrying and thought that God could give him more protection and direction through the Holy Spirit to help and his family with his all this violence around I get concerned, his child is only 2 now so a way off going to school etc.

I had a look and it seems that these are the shortest vows. I will send them to him and ask him again if he would like me to do it this week. If he doesn't reply I will not proceed to ask him and keep praying as I do to God to meet him.

Apostles' Creed (as vows)
These are affirmations of faith, often recited as vows in response to questions from the minister.

• "I believe in God the Father almighty..."
• "I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son..."
• "I believe in the Holy Spirit..."

Personal Vow (for those of age)

• A declaration of faith:

"I accept Jesus as my Saviour and Lord, and I commit to follow Him and grow in Him".

• A public testimony:

The candidate might declare, "I am choosing to be baptized today as a public declaration that Jesus is my Saviour and Lord".

Thank you all

You've been through such a lot @Justmerach

My grandfather baptised me! We have such a lovely photo.

ChristmasStars thank you. QuickPeachPoet, that is very good to read.
That reminds me of when in the early Christian church people used to receive communion house to house and baptism was done not in church buildings like with Jesus disciples going round. May be we need these more randomly from time to time in the community.

I had a lovely Confirmation/Received service at church in July which was more prefable than being in a side room or in a street for me by far and the build up...but sometimes as Uricon2 said needs must come first a small perhaps for a number of people.

There are a number of Christian denominations that don’t practise water baptism. Their members make a declaration of faith and are received into the Church community.
I don’t think you should be too worried about ensuring that people have been baptised and certainly not those who don’t declare a faith.

I think baptism in water and the more charismatic baptism in the holy spirit are different things, personally. Anglicans baptise (christen) babies and small children, who aren't able to make declaration of faith themselves if they're really small. Many families get their kids baptised and then never darken the doors of the church again. So why? Because it's 'the thing' to do, maybe, or to act as some sort of insurance against going to hell? I don't know.... I think it's more complex than simply being baptised means you're a christian and are going to heaven and there are cultural aspects to it as well.
Baptism in the holy spirit though, certainly for evangelical charismatics, is a different thing, sometimes prayed for when an adult is baptised (usually full immersion), but not always. Someone can pray for you to be baptised in the holy spirit seperate from any water baptism, and it's usually associated with receiving some of the gifts of the spirit - speaking in tongues, or prophesying, or healing or whatever. But again, I don't think being baptised in the holy spirit is a necessity for being a Christian or for getting into heaven.

Interesting comments, I was baptised at 8 had a little water blessing on my forehead in a Catholic church. It was very simple. The person who I baptised I did the sign of the cross on their head and they drank some water. I would do the same again for others who wanted it. The space at a wedding is limited to so it could go no further than a sign of a cross being made with water. The water I have was blessed after the service. It wasn't water from the service it was in a 2 litre bottle and I asked for it to be blessed by the Anglican minister and it was. I know some people who have had full immersion and found it very special and some people who had more formal services and each to their own needs.

When I was in the build up for my confirmation at an Anglican church I attended once the build up and they had baptism water for the candiates which they would use for their baptism. They used this water during preparation as well. When I did mine they blessed water which they had prepared and was sprinkled on me and the others who attended. I think they asked me to dip my hand in the water again and they again prayed with hands.

Say. someone else they try and help and something happens to something they care down the road they may blame themselves that they didn't do enough for them. The gifts can offer a lot of protection and direction to young people.

I just looked at my confirmation vows and they do the same thing for baptism, so they do use at least in Anglican church's blessed water to do this. I think they do the same in Catholic church's as well.

I pasted this below for my vows-

Prayer over the Water
The ministers and candidate for confirmation gather at the baptismal font.
Let us give thanks to the Lord our God.
It is right to give thanks and praise.
Blessed are you, sovereign God of all,
to you be glory and praise for ever.
You are our light and our salvation.
From the deep waters of death
you have raised your Son to life in triumph.
Grant that all who have been born anew by water and the Spirit,
may daily be renewed in your image,
walk by the light of faith,
and serve you in newness of life;
through your anointed Son, Jesus Christ, to whom with you and the Holy Spirit
we lift our voices of praise.
Blessed be God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit
All Blessed be God for ever.
...........
The candidate for confirmation who has previously been baptized may come forward to the font and sign herself with water, or the bishop may sprinkle them.

Then the bishop says
Almighty God,
we thank you for our fellowship in the household of faith
with all who have been baptized into your name.
Keep us faithful to our baptism,
and so make us ready for that day
when the whole creation shall be made perfect in your Son,
our Saviour Jesus Christ.
All Amen.
........
The bishop extends their hands towards those to be confirmed and says
Almighty and ever-living God,
you have given these your servants new birth
in baptism by water and the Spirit,
and have forgiven them all their sins.
Let your Holy Spirit rest upon them:
the Spirit of wisdom and understanding;
the Spirit of counsel and inward strength;
the Spirit of knowledge and true godliness;
and let their delight be in the fear of the Lord.
..................

A person has to come to baptism of their own volition and free will.

Simply, I fear that if you do this to your nephew, you risk your relationship with him, and also risk ruining the wedding.
I suggest you talk to him, one to one, and, as a PP said, guide him in the direction of an established church if that is what he desires for himself.

FuzzyPuffling two times said, I think I back out now even doing it for one nephew if they wanted to now. Thank you for writing that.

I sent them an email yesterday and they might not reply and I won't further it.

Dear X
I am wondering would like me to baptise you on Friday in a quiet room. It will take no longer than 5 mins. I have the water that is blessed from a rector who is a minister a dedicated one from my Anglican church. Baptism with the Holy Spirit offers so many benefits. It can help protect and for God to speak words of wisdom to you. This gives you the authority as the head of the household to save your family to next life eternal life.

You would say the short vows and I would annoit your head with the sign of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and you would drink about less than a quarter a bottle of small water.

These are the vows, what do you think and I will link to you a short post about it. I struggle to see you going to a church services for lessons for this knowing but you should think about it if you don't want to do this now. Say the Our Father occasionally and God could lead you there if you not ready now...Don't close doors and it always helps me praying daily, I don't know if you do, we don't talk about it. We are all the same, but just I know the water is tblessed water..I thought I would ask.

After that you if you decide to be baptised you could pray to the Holy Spirit to ignite your gifts.

I'm interested in this. Which denominations don't have baptism at all?

I just thought about something that slipped my mind a bit. When I was being confirmed and recieved I was asked by my rector when I was baptised and what church was it in and date. I couldn't remember the date so they emailed the church to find out and they had the record still and found it. Without this I could not have been confirmed in the church. I guess to say if you had it done in some jobs involving ministry work and if you want to go further in the ministry then getting this done by a church minister etc if better to have a proper record for it.
They come with certificates in some church's to.

I think there are a couple of things to bear in mind @Justmerach . I was christened as a baby but my mother didn't have my much younger sister baptised and said she had done it herself when Dsis was a child. At the time my mother had serious MH issues. Many years later, as a mature adult Dsis was confirmed and actually asked to also be baptised, having explained the situation to her vicar, which she was.

Also, if at any point your nephew should wish to be confirmed and receive communion, or wants to change denominations, a formal record of his baptism might be asked for and he won't be able to provide it. I certainly was and it was quite a rigmarole providing proof from church records as sadly my baptism certificate had vanished years before.

I know you only want what's best for him and your motives are caring. There are reasons though why emergency baptism by the laity is usually only done in extremis. Your nephew clearly has the option of going to church and even if he doesn't now, that will always be there.

ETA, posts crossed!

@ChristmasStarsThe Quakers and Salvation Army don’t have water baptism. The church my grandparents and my DH attended, which used to be called the Peculiar People and is now the Union of Evangelical Churches, didn’t either. In our local C of E churches the emphasis is on confirmation rather than baptism, although this may not be the same in other parts of the UK.

I just want to comment on the Holy Spirit baptism aspect. As soon as you confess Christ as your saviour who died for your sins, and you ask forgiveness, you receive the Holy Spirit, at least that is my understanding of it and what I've been taught (when I was in the CoE). This may not manifest in any outward way at that time. It seems there are a lot of different views across the various denominations, though.

My church does not believe Baptism by water is essential for salvation in any way, it is more a public declaration of your faith. I was christened as a baby and went on to come to faith in Jesus in my 20s, and did receive the Holy Spirit at that time.

I was thinking Jesus was baptised by water by his cousin John the Baptist-this departed from the old the way of the Jews into something new. God spoke at that point when his son was baptised with water that God was well pleased. Someone might find quite unsual that the Son of God should do this as well. May be he was leading the way for us to follow.

Now, the Pentecost fire came and I cannot remember reading any mention of water. I wonder if this was done before.

Actually Jews did have baptism before Jesus was baptised. It was used for new converts and for ritual cleansing. With Jesus it became a once and for all things as he told his disciples when they wanted to be baptised again.

It was done by full immersion in any water to hand.

Thanks @Mydoglovescheese I didn't know about the salvation army.

@Justmerach I plan to surprise the 28 year at least and say do you accept Jesus etc and if they say yes just baptise him.

Oooh, I'm not sure about that. But then I don't know what relationship you have with the 28 year old and where they are 'at' on their Faith journey. You need to ensure they understand, methinks.

I was 'sprinkled' as an infant but that was a cultural thing rather than in a sincere knowledge of the Lord. I delayed my adult baptism after coming to Faith, because I wanted to understand more about what it meant. The church I was in at the time did a pre-baptism course, which meant by the time my baptism by full immersion in water, happened, I was more than ready. What a joyous occasion it was! 🙏🎉. I gave my public 'confession of Faith' and the people who performed the baptism in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit were not 'ordained' by anyone or anything in this world, but were born-again, Spirit-filled people, chosen by me. I can remember, as if it was yesterday, the assembled church erupting into singing and praising as I came up out of the water.

I think a difference between Jews and Christians is that Christians usually baptise with the Trinity-the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit- the giving of the Holy Spirit at baptism is a doctrine of Christanity.