Is homosexuality a sin?

[yikesss]

Looking to explore people's views on this one, if anyone is willing to share.

Thank you in advance to those who reply

Hi @yikesss

I've discussed this many times on the philosophy and religion board. Before I answer your question, my question to you is - do you know Jesus as your Lord and Saviour?

Thank you, I did have a look on here if it had been brought up but didnt check the other board. I will try there, thank you!
Yes, He is 😊

Thank you for answering and confirming 😊

My answer to your original question is in and of itself homosexuality is not a sin.

However, regardless of anyone's sexuality and how they wish to express it, the Bible makes it clear that sexual union / sexual activity outside of God's model is sinful. Having said that, it's clear that not many folk stick to His model, whether straight or gay.

For a Christian, it is up to the individual and their own conscience - as is everything, tbh. Christians all know that God is the ultimate and Sovereign judge of our hearts.

For somebody who does not know Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, well, they are already living outside of God's Will, so it makes no difference.

Thank you, I appreciate you taking time to respond!
Could I ask you to expand on why you think homosexuality isn't a sin?
Its something we dont really discuss at my church (CofE) - I wouldnt bring it up there really as I would hate for anyone to be offended or uncomfortable, but I do like listening to others views and being able to have these discussions.

How can simply being homosexual be a sin? It is only when we act on our impulses and compulsions that are outside of God's Perfect Will for us, that we are sinful.

What is your take on it?

That is what I thought you would say, I didnt want to assume though!
I believe the same as you, I think the church made homosexual sex out to be "worse" than other sexual sins, or sin in general (I don't believe there is any hierachy of sin, sin is sin) but it seems a lot are trying to put that right now.

I will paste something I wrote on this as somebody asked on a general thread for my views on homosexuality as a Christian and I looked into it and answered it as with the evidence I found for the current times-

So, what is the situation regards the Holy Bible. Me myself, I live in the West. I am a Christian and a have an interest in the Torah/The Old Testament and Judaic law. I am trying to lead a holy life and for me much of the Leviticus laws still pertains to my life as a Christian. The Leviticus laws governing homosexuality Leviticus 20:13 were though intended to be for God's chosen people which were the Jewish people. “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.” It is not supposed to be for the Gentile's which are not a tribe, but they are non Jews and under a different law.
The time of the Bible the world was small and so the Jewish people were a small nation which God was looking to grow and survive. With Sodom that was pre Leviticus laws, but I do like that God said that if one righteous person was left he would not destroy them. It showed to me how innately holy God was.

God gave his son to us Jesus Christ as a atonement for our sin as Christians. Jesus said to us to love God with all our heart and love our neighbour as ourselves. Christians are followers of Christ now and not Gentile's non believers. Paul though has outlined for some laws for non believers, which are Gentile’s-Acts 21:25. The King James version of the Bible which is the traditional version mentions fornication as a sexual immorality and not homosexuality as a law for Gentile’s. “As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.”

What is fornication in the Bible-This is sleeping as someone with someone who married with someone who is unmarried. This is an early edition Bible from 1976.

I emailed a Rabbi yesterday and directed me a website for information on Judaic low. We live in modern day life and to understand Leviticus laws it needs to be read with commentary he said in his communication. Many Jews in the world today do not live under the laws of the Sanhedrin council. They have to follow justice and humanitarian justice mostly like everybody else. Can it expected for a Jew who is gay to be put to death for being gay. I would in most countries no. What is Biblical thought on this. It applies to be a sin homosexuality for gay Jews. However, it is becoming more accepted that they need to be treated with compassion. Also, there is discussion and thought that they can offer an offering for their sin to God as Jewish and not be put to death. Let’s say as well, there doesn’t appear to be now any greater sin. An idol worship would be sin again and so would not honouring parents. Take a look at what Chabad has to say.
www.chabad.org/library/articlecdo/aid/961960/jewish/Negative-Commandment-350.htm

Moving On

Jesus told us not to judge others and it is against the law as Christians (James 4:11). " Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister or judges them speaks against the law." There today are some gay Christians who have the gifts of the Holy Spirit and work for the church so they are not considered unholy to have these priestly holy gifts. I report some gay Christians report on what they some have asked God to change this nature for whatever reasons they have and some have decided it is what they want to live with and serve God. There are also some communities which support gay Christians like Inclusive Birmingham. I love to see gay people with the Holy Spirit gifts, Jesus said he would give as a form as a comforter. Some of these people may be abstinent and some perhaps they are not and are in a blessed or married relationship and they are walking on their journey.

So people get their olive branch and grafted back on the olive tree. Let us start welcoming gay people to the body of the church. They are members of my church as well who are dear to me.

I hope this is clear what is common thought now. I am open to corrections and your thoughts to get this right.

Let us focus on love which was the message for us at this week-(John 14: 23-29).

The Bible in the New Testament does say that carnal sin is an enmity against God. In Genesis these relations do not appear to be how God intended to create the world. However, I do think if someone was in the ministry and absistent and not giving of seed of themselves as well and a gave sin offering God may have a role for them as well in the ministry. In Leviticus self pleasure is not clean for men as well. With Adam and Eve's original sin all of us felt it as well.

"Leviticus 15:16-19-"
And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even. And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even.

I was looking at what the Bible did say about destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah trying to get to truth. This is using the KJV. It is has been said by some vocally or orally that the city was destroyed because of homosexuality largely. The Bible doesn't actually say this. God mainly just said they were destroyed for grievous sins and tried to placate with them to change their ways before the city was destroyed. As I wrote yesterday this destruction took place before the days of the Leviticus laws/10 Commandments which were for the chosen people. May be the Talmud could tell us more about the listed grievances in Sodom. If it wouldn't surprise me if fornication and adultery where up there.
Behaviour seems to be noted as well. Also, up there was devious wicked plans to be sexually violent with angels of God.
www.chabad.org/library/arti...odom-and-Gomorrah-Cities-Destroyed-by-G-d.htm

Sodom and Gomorrah - The Reformation Project

journals.co.za/doi/pdf/10.10520/AJA101099191001

1 Corinthians 6-9 is against sensuality but promotes marriage and Chasity/abstinence and if its too pressing get married, what can we do if we are concerned pray to God and search our souls for the right answer for us. A carnal chokes spiritual growth (Romans 8:7).

"All things are lawful but not all things are expedient" from 1 Corinthians 10:23, and echoed in 1 Corinthians 6:12, means that while Christians have freedom and are permitted to do many things, not all actions are beneficial or edifying.

As was said yesterday, the greatest sin is against the Holy Ghost which is unforgiveable, everything else is forgivable to Jesus. Matthew 12-32 "Wherefore I say unto you. All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven, neither in this world and in neither in the world to come."

Women-
Leviticus 18:18-Neither, shall thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness beside the other in her lifetime. Their souls were cut of among their people. These were the Chosen people who God had severed for himself and are not under the same law and who may be Gentile's or believers of Christ today. In The New Testatment there are no laws given for virginity though, but to be customary is the preferred expectation (1 Corinthians 7).

🙂

The unforgivable sin aside, I totally agree with you - sin is sin with no weighing scales.

Christians especially should know to take the log out of their own eye - with the measure we judge, so shall we be judged.

Wow, thank you so much for this!

I read it last night, and again this morning. Im going to sit down properly later- and read it again. Its a lot to get your head around.

@Justmerach Some of these people may be abstinent and some perhaps they are not and are in a blessed or married relationship and they are walking on their journey.

With this, I cannot agree. To act on your carnal nature outside of God’s model is continue in sin. The Bible is clear on this. Anyone who actively encourages another to act against God, is culpable.

Personally, I would not touch any expression of church that has moved away from God by blessing any ‘Christian’ who wants acceptance of their sin. Actively encouraging sin (any sin) is not showing ‘love’, but is doing the work of the enemy.

For any church that has moved away from God, don’t be surprised if God leaves your church. For anyone who falsely teaches and preaches - they already know that they stand under God’s watchful gaze and WILL answer to Him for leading people astray.

The hard truth is, for a disciple of Christ Jesus, if your nature is to want sex with the same sex, you should remain celebate. Same for any person who has sex outside of marriage (what is ’ marriage’ is a whole different topic), best to remain celebate. If you can’t, and you are doing no harm to anyone else, then your continuing sin is between you and God.

People will always do what people have always done - we all have a sinful nature. I cannot judge another as the log in my eye is the size of a sequoia. However, if you ask my opinion, my answer will always rest on the Word. What anyone who loves the Lord their God with all their heart, all their soul and all their mind, does or thinks is between them, their conscience and their Maker.

What I wrote is more observational of what I observe gay Christians doing. We have a couple who are women who attend our church and they are baptised and walking along with their faith journey as a Christian. Some have spoken on Youtube how they are Christians and how Jesus came into their life and walked beside them and for them led to them on a journey of discovery. It is this journey that I am talking about. People can begin their journey at a different point and end up at an end state for them. I keep away from judging others and saying what the Bible says.
This is such a case-

The key thing here is that Jesus is the sacrificial atonement-bridge and mediator for God and he said all sins can be forgiven to him but blasphemy unto the Holy Ghost.

Now I didn't touch on this one much but what do some of you think about the word effeminate-does this applies to couples to you.

@Justmerach

It was a strong testimony from this young man. For anyone else who watches, it takes until around 17 minutes in before he talks about the subject of this thread, homosexuality. God is surely blessing that young man on his journey. He says what both @yikesss and I said upthread : sin is sin, no weighing scales. God loves His children but He will not love their sin.

what do some of you think about the word effeminate-does this applies to couples to you

To me, this is a straw man. It bothers me not how people present themselves 🤷‍♀️, but let us not go down the Trans rabbit hole.

I agree with you about sin and that sin is sin, I did write that as well-I wrote this-

"As was said yesterday, the greatest sin is against the Holy Ghost which is unforgiveable, everything else is forgivable to Jesus. Matthew 12-32 "Wherefore I say unto you. All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven, neither in this world and in neither in the world to come."

fornication is not promoted. People can start their path in a bad shape and Jesus transform them. Jesus at the end will cleanse the sin of all who are saved.

The question about the effeminate I asked some peoples opinion as it appears in 1 Corinthinans 6:9 and I came back to this after writing what I did. The word effeminate doesn't appear in the behaviour of those that not repented will bar that from New Earth Revelation 21:8. Thank you for your take..You know some people take that differently and as being camp but Bible terms can be different.I have asked my rector at church a doctor in religion and minister about their words on this word and 1 Corinthians 6:9 and they should tell me something different on the above I will post.

On another point-
It was poor behaviour as well that led God to destroy Sodom and not immorality alone.Trying to get others to pay to judge bridges at a cost was not viewed kindly by God.

I got a reply via text from my rector of an Anglican church in regards to the word effeminate in 1 Corin 6:9
" Sin gets in the way of God's kingdom and we must repent of it and ask God's loving mercy and forgiveness. Effeminate here is the Greek word malaoki which here is a lot of scholary debate"
Other than arguments about creation, Looking up the word there is sure some debate around it. Galatians 3:28 says there is no more slave etc before God and to be in this relationship of dominance may seen as slavery to God and he gave us his Son.

This is a subject that generates a lot of heat. As an Anglican priest with post grad qualifications in religion and ethics my answer would be no. Whether you are gay, or straight or bi or celibate there are plenty of opportunities to sin in the failure to love our neighbours as ourselves. Who you love isn’t one of them. In the ancient world in which the bible was written, they didn’t have the notion of the loving same sex relationships that we have today. We read the Bible in translation and all translations involve interpretation.

The arguments about many of the hot topics in the bible over the past 140 years; women in society and the workplace, abortion, euthanasia, IVF, slavery, prayers for the dead, divorce come down to the notion of how the Bible is authoritative. This is a rather good article that digs into why this is an issue for evangelicals. https://ntwrightpage.com/2016/07/12/how-can-the-bible-be-authoritative/

@mostlydrinkstea

That was a very wordy and long document you sent us to, but I did my best to try and remain engaged with it. 😂

The parts that jumped out at me were:

"... because the church is always in danger of getting too like the world. I have already said that this happens in relation to authority; we use the world’s authority models instead of the God-given authority models. ..."

"... I am saying that we mustn’t belittle scripture by bringing the world’s models of authority into it. ..."

And this is what I meant upthread re when the a church goes away from God (adding: and the authority of the Bible), then do not be surprised when God leaves that church.

Christians may be in the world but we should not be of it - do not bring the world's ways into the church by reducing the authority of Scripture.

As a gay christian who was in a same sex relationship (marriage) for nearly 20 years, I think the issue is more is whether those relationships are loving, faithful and stable, as opposed to whether it's someone of the same sex or not.
As far as I know, most vicars don't ask whether couples wanting to get married in their churches have had sex before marriage, neither do most of them have issues marrying people who have been divorced. It can be argued there are double standards with the way the church treats straight and same sex relationships.
People in my church didn't have any issues with my relationship - as long as it was held to the same standards of any other straight relationship; as I said, faithful, stable, loving.

I think a lot of the current debates all hang on whether you think homosexuality is a choice or not. If you don't - aside from wondering when straight poeple chose to be straight - then you can treat gay people as you like because they can 'choose' not to be gay, and not to be a relationships. Or you can tell them 'well you chose to be this way, so sorry, you've got to remain celibate'.
But if you think homosexuality is not a choice, that maybe God made gay people, then I don't really see any reason for not letting them be in relationships, the same as any straight people.

My view is that scripture teaches that God created sex for humans within the parameters of marriage.

I also believe marriage is between one man and one woman, as taught by Christ.

Having wrestled with scripture, ethics, and morality around this subject for many years, this is my settled belief.