Early morning headache in 8 yr old DS - advice today please?

[Solo2]

Please can anyone advise me what to do today? Last summer and also earlier in the yr, DS2 aged 8 had recurrent early morning headaches - with no other symptoms. He would want to lie down/ sleep (this is after a full night's sleep), would have watery eyes and then be absolutely and completely fine about 2 to 3 hrs later.

He was referred to a paediatrician who queried the possibiltiy of a brain tumour but as he'd had no headaches for 2 wks by the time we saw her, I was told just to keep an eye on him. No one suggested migraine or anything other than possible brain tumour.

Over half-term, DS2 has had watery, puffed eyes and been tired after sleeping through the night. But today, he's got what he calls 'pressure behind my eyes' and has returned to bed and is currently asleep.

This has coincided with a much desired and long awaited playdate and I've had to cancel his friend coming this pm, much to his upset. Like before, there's no connection with something aversive and his headaches and he's not particularly bothered about school starting tomorrow (if indeed he can go).

Should I call the out of hrs doctors - although I've found them pretty hopeless in the past - or take him to A & E, as the paediatrician report had suggested last summer, should his headaches recur?

I've got his twin to look after too (I'm a single mum with no relatives etc to help out here) and so a 5 hr wait in A & E won't be fun and also DS2 is still asleep right now?

Should I just wait and see how he is? Should I be cancelling work committments tomorrow (also difficult, as I run my own profesisonal business and have several appointments lined up tomorrow and have just taken this last week off)?

I'm really worried and have no idea what to do for the best?

Hi Solo, don't have an answer but didn't want your post to go unnanswered. As he's asleep I would ring a dr to come and visit him or if he can wake him - do you have an out of hours surgery at the hospital. I think someone needs to look at him whilst it is happening. You definitely need to fight to pursue it and get it sorted, something is obviously not quite right. Good luck and keep us posted. As regards work - your DS comes first.

Have you had his eyes tested?

Solo2 - when the brain tumour was queried the first time, did they do a scan? If not, go back and push for it, if nothing else than to remove that as a possibility. It may not be anything like that - he may suffer from migraines or something else entirely but it needs to be checked out.

I say this because my DNiece had a benign brain tumour at age 1 3/4 - but being that young she couldn't say she had a headache, she just couldn't stand anything being on her head and frequently cried when she woke up in the mornings. It was successfully removed but the pressure inside her head was enormous, due to the thing blocking one of the ventricles that allows the CSF to flow. This caused her to look quite puffy in the face and she had what we thought were water warts above her eyebrows - they weren't, they disappeared as soon as the internal pressure was removed.

I don't know where you are but see if your local hospital has a paediatric A&E - they tend to work a bit faster than standard A&E. If my sis's GP and local hospital are anything to go by, they won't be any use at all - my sis ended up having to go to UCH Paeds A&E in London, where she was quickly referred for a brain scan and everything moved very fast from there.

Good luck and I hope it all works out ok for your DS.

Thanks. He's been fast asleep about an hour now and in bed for 3.5 hrs. His twin wants lunch right now - and I only just remembered I hadn't given him bk/fast yet - so I'm trying to do all that and then will phone out of hrs doctors service I think.

DS2 had a squint followed up for his first 3 yrs or so and was discharged and deemed fine since then. He's the only one of us with perfect vision. But he often has v v puffy eyes and occasionally slight exczema (sp?) round eyes. He's red-haired and I've always suspected he had mild allergies to lots of things but nothing was ever so bad that it was checked out. He also has hyper-sensitive bowels and can poo around 6 times / day and again no GP ever thought this was of particular concern.

He was premature (born 34 wks and 5 days) and has v v v mild Asperger's-like traits - again nothing that ever meritied a full diagnosis, after assessments but lots of traits and I think many Asps children have various stomach problems too?

But it's like he's OK enough never to have merited any real concerns, yet, as his mum, I experience him as a constant worry. I know of one older ASps child who recently was operated on for a brain tumour and I'm making all sorts of horrible connections in my mind.

I feel I can't do much except watch him and meanwhile try to cook some lunch for DS1 - wh's own playdate, arranged to coincide with his twin's, has also had to be cancelled today and so is miserable and just sitting watching TV right now.

If anyone else has any ideas too or a child with similar headaches/ watery/puffy eyes and sleepiness symptoms, please share your experiences with me.

Hi

My ds1 (7.10) suffers from migraines, according to my GP they aren't as uncommon in children as people tend to think. His take the form of going a bit pale and a funny colour, then the watery eyes, then sometimes he is sick, especially if we give him calpol. The only thing that works for him is going to bed and he'll often sleep for 14 hours or more. The next day he tends to be quite vague and little bit weepy.

Your description of pressure behind the eyes reminded me of how I get when I have sinus problems. I suffer from regular sinusitis and when its really bad my eyes water and I can't do anything except stay in bed.

Also, a friend of mine suffers from a problem with the nerve that runs behind the nose and into the sinuses. She has excruciating debilitating headaches that last weeks at a time and include pressure in the sinus area.

However, if the paediatrician suggested you should take him to A&E if the headaches return, I would do that. If he is still sleeping, perhaps you could get together a bag of stuff to take to make the wait a bit easier, drinks, snacks and something to keep his brother occupied, then take him when he wakes up. I don't think you'll stop worrying until you've had him checked and if they don't find anything, at least you will have put your mind at rest.

Hopefully A&E won't be too bad on a Sunday, ours is generally quieter on Sundays anyway.

Hope you get some answers and he feels better really soon.

I thought sinus too., I constanly take anti histamines. I regularly wake up with a sore head and puffy eyes. There are certain things that set it off, my eyes puff up so much I can barely see through them. I would check for tumours to put your mind at rest and then try to think of other things that might cause it.
My DD has a condition that means there is a higher chance than normal of getting a brain tumour. She was having some emotional problems and we had to take her to her specialist to get her checked, they asked was she having sore heads constantly and was she vomiting. These were signs to them.

Hi, this may not be relavant with your DS's other symptoms however my DD was waking up with headaches and the GP said it could be hormonal related migraine [she was 9] which can start at around her age or possibly low blood sugar. We were advised to try and give her protein for breakfast and cut the sugary cereal so as not to exascerbate the peaking and dipping of her blood sugar.
Whatever the true cause the headaches have stopped now.
Could your DS be allergic to some of his bedding?
Hope you get a solution.

Thumbwitch, only just seen your message after I'd posted again. No, he didn't have a brain scan last yr but they said this is what they'd do if he had further problems. Would it be v frightening and invasive for him, do you know and would there be any risks involved? -eg I only know that X-rays carry a v slight risk of inducing tumours or something I think?

He's just woken up this time when I went in and said he feels fine - but then he always, always uses this stock phrase, "I feel fine" if I ever ask him anything at all about symptoms when he's ill. He wants to stay lying down alone in his room however and didn't perk up in any way when I told him I was cooking his twin's lunch. So he's obviously not hungry and usually he has a massive, massive appetite.

It's really helping to post here and read the replies, as I feel quite alone today, having to decide what's best to do, with no one else to consult.

The scan can be a bit scary but they can give him a mild sedative to help keep him calm, as it is important that he lies still in the machine. I think from what I have heard it is partly the noise of the machine as the magnets go round (if he has an MRI scan) that is a bit scary, plus being in an enclosed tube.

Afaik, my Dniece was sedated prior to the scan - at her age it was essential. Also afaik there are no associated risks with MRI or PET or CAT scans like there are with X rays. Hopefully someone with more actual medical or radiography knowledge will be able to answer that better.

Solo, I had an MRI brain scan a couple of years ago to rule out other causes for my own migraines.

The noise can be a bit scary, but they give you ear defenders, so its very muffled. The worst part is having your head held in position to make sure you can't move it accidentally.

I didn't have a sedative, despite being quite claustrophobic. I was in the machine from the top of my head down to my waist, but my hips and legs were outside so it didn't feel too enclosed.

They can talk to you through the headphones to help keep you calm and I believe some places play music to you as well as a distraction. You are also given a button to press if you feel you can't cope at any point.

It wasn't a pleasant experience, but wasn't invasive, painful or even uncomfortable in any way and it was over relatively quickly. Mine took around 20 min iirc.

I was told there are no health risks associated with MRIs, but be aware that I was off balance for an hour or so afterwards which is apparently a little known side effect. Although I suppose if a sedative is used you wouldn't be allowed to stand until it had worn off anyway so that wouldn't be an issue.

A thumbwitch said, I think its likely that they would sedate children as a matter of course before they have an MRI.

Here's an update since yesterday on DS2. He fully recovered after 5 hrs and sleep and was totally, totally normal, fine, energetic, hungry for the rest of the day. So I waited to see how he was.

This morning, he looked and acted totally fine, so went to school. I emailed his teacher however and told them what had happened and to contact me if there were further symptoms.

They called me mid-morning and said he looked extremely ill. So I picked him up and also called the GPs and we saw a Doctor tonight. The GP felt it was more like migraine possibly induced by some food, rather than a brain tumour.

He's referred him back to the hospital and meanwhile told us to withdraw all chocolate and cheese. DS2 is devastated about the choc. as his standard bkfast is a pain au chocolat and because of his mild Asperger's, he' s a real creature of habit and HATES any changes.

The GP also suggested withdrawal from anything with E numbers in and I discovered that the ONLY fluids DS2 will drink - flavoured water fruit shoots or No Sugar Robinson's orange squash (diluted with water) both have additives. I'm trying him tonight on fresh apple juice with water but he's NOT happy.

Of course it could be a food intolerance to just about anything and I don't understand why he's frequently eating all his usual things WITHOUT headaches and then will have these sudden bouts. I can't think of anything he eats only occasionally in conjunction with headaches.

He's never particularly liked cheese/ milk products so doesn't have much of those anyway. Worst thing might be wheat allergy as he lives off bread/ sandwiches/ pastries and ALL the protein he eats is BREADED fish/ chicken.

I think we're in for a long haul but if we could discover what's going on and stop it happening, that would be brilliant. I felt SO upset today and like the world's worst mum for letting him go to school but he'd looked fine. All he ate before the headache was a pain au choc but as I say, he has one every day and often doesn't get a headache.

Has anyone got any ideas what it might be and any experience of food allergies? Both sides of the family have NO history of allergies/ intolerances and in fact my late mother used to say we all had 'cast iron stomachs' and could eat anything and everything.

DS2 has ginger hair and gets mild exczema and I guess maybe some combination of genes may have sparked this off.

I've had to come off wheat, sugar, yeasty stuff due to intolerance but never for more than 6 weeks. If I am 'craving' something it usually means I need to have a break from it. I get muscle aches/tiredness/thrush. DD2 (8) is off yeasty and sugary foods at the moment, she's on her 3rd week. She kept getting rashes, which only cleared up with Canesten cream. The woman who I see said it was a fungal infection and was up her nose . Since coming off the stuff she had nose bleeds and lots of snot(!) but only for a couple of days. I'm starting to reintroduce things this week. You only need to stay off things permanently if it's a true allergy.

BTW DD lived on pain au chocolate, cheese, fruit juices etc.

DS had something similar, I did notice every may/june he started complaining of head aches but when he was 9 it continued.
He had an MRI scan, EEG (had a febrile convulsion a few months earlier) and eye tests and it turned out to be chrionic sinustis. It took from June to December to get a diagnosis but once he had antibiotics the head aches cleared up.

He does have lots of allergies including hayfever which probable caused it.

He does get sinus problems every so often and have to remind the doctor it took an MRI scan to diagnose the last time because he often doesn't have any obvious symptoms

Solo, ds1 has just had a verbal diagnosis of ASD and is just about to be put back onto gluten after being gluten free for four months, so that he can be tested for coeliacs in July.

The paediatrician we saw was actually assessing for Aspergers, but felt that the chances of coeliacs were quite high as he suffers from red rough cheeks, awful digestive problems (we're talking hours on the toilet every day here) and we had also noticed a big improvement in his behaviour after removing gluten from his diet. He also craves bread, pastry and pasta, which apparently can be another indicator. He has been fine making the switch to gluten free versions though. You have to be choosy about which brands you buy and its not cheap, but there's lots of good advice and recommendations in the allergy section on mn.

I hadn't made the association between the wheat-intolerance/coeliacs and his migraines, so that's an interesting thought for me. We did mention them to the paediatrican so maybe he made that connection as well as all the digestive and behavioural stuff.

Come to think of it, I can't actually remember the last time he had a migraine, so it probably was before he came off gluten.

If it is migraines, they can be triggered by overtiredness, stress, certain types of lights and for me strong smells, particularly perfumes, aftershaves and certain chemicals. Triggers can really vary from person to person.

I had to keep a diary of when my migraines occurred, what I'd had to eat and drink, where I'd been that day, how stressed/tired I was and anything else I felt was relevant. The only trigger they ever found for me was smells, but it wasn't always smells that set them off, most of the time I never had a clue what started them. We never did find out, but I was lucky enough to respond well to a course of the epilepsy drug Topomax and have been 'almost' migraine free for about three years now.

Sorry to ramble on, just wanted you to know that its not always food triggers, they can be environmental and in some cases emotional/psychological as well.

If it is intolerance-induced migraines then definitely make sure you remove any aspartame (or aminosweet as it's soon to be called) from his diet as well (also in toothkind or sugarfree squashes and many flavoured waters), and many reduced sugar varieties of things. A lady I knew suffered from migraine quite frequently, which reduced enormously when she stopped including aspartame in her diet (she was quite horrified to discover it was in her migraine tablets though! but got her GP to change her prescription to one without aspartame)

As you say he has mild Asperger's it might be an idea to try something other than apple juice (sorry!) but not orange, as orange can also be a migraine trigger. According to this forum, pear juice might work better (apple juice is high in salicylates which can have a negative effect on ASD people)

HTH too.

Hiya hope your ds is feeling better today. You have had some good advice about what to try if your ds is suffering from migraines. If however he does have to have a scan at a later date I just wanted to clarify a couple of things brought up earlier about scans and radiation.

A CT/CAT scan does involve x-rays. The CT scanner is actually made up of several x-ray tubes inside the "polo mint" shaped bit. It is a higher radiation dose than a normal x-ray, however these are not given to children lightly and they are very quick. A doctor has to be confident that the information they will obtain from doing the scan and subsequently treating the condition outweighs the risk of radiation induced cancer.

Children are more likely to have an MRI scan which involves no ionising radiation. The scanner is more tube shaped and is actually a large magnet. These scans take longer than CT scans and children are often mildly sedated as they have to keep still for a long time. The scanner is very noisy but they can listen to music, the other advantage to MRI scans is you can usually go in with them for moral support.

If your ds is at all worried about any scan though give the Radiology department a ring, they often have information packs specially designed for children, if not then googling CT/MRI scans gives you hundreds of results to look at together. Most staff though are quite prepared to take their time explaining things to children, the equipment looks scary but there is lots we can do to make it easier for them.

Also don't be afraid to ask lots of questions yourself, the more you understand about the procedures the more confident you will feel about supporting him.

Hope he doesn't have to go through any of them though and gets sorted soon

Thanks. DS2 is back at school today, claiming not to have a headache and looking v v slightly better. He's incredibly upset though about no chocolate and has lost weight simply because so many foods he was eating had chocolate or cheese or additives.

I have no idea whether his headaches have anything at all to do with food intolerances and don't think it's a v scientific approach for the GP just to say - no cheese/ choc or additives - when he hasn't said for how long or if we can try DS2 on a small piece of choc and see if he gets a headache? Would that be the right thing to do?

I'm even beginning to wonder if he's had a strange virus as, although the headaches have gradually lessened (unless they come back of course) he's going to the toilet more again now doing lots of soft, smelly poos every day and at the start of the headaches, he had been having a run of what I call 'normal' poos for days.

Could it be that because he can't eat his usual foods and has therefore eaten more bread instead, that THIS is causing the poos and we're focusing on the wrong foods?

What can I feed DS2 on in the meantime? There's v v little he'll eat and every single protein food he'll only eat if it has breadcrumbs attached. He won't eat sausages, mince, meatballs, chicken legs, unbreaded fish, tinned sardines etc etc. He sometimes eats eggs but recently doesn't want any.

I think a lot of his calories were coming from bread/ pastry with choc added (spreads or pain au choc etc) and from chocolate and also from lots of sauces/ gravy added to his meals, which I now see have e numbers.

So he's losing weight and I've also noticed, since the headaches, that his body temperature has been LOWER than normal at about 35.5 C. He's prone to getting v hot and sweaty in the night but recently since the headaches hasn't been hot but cold instead.

So now I'm worrying about this too and what it all means.

He's living off baked beans on toast, hot buttered toast and little else. At school today, the only thing he could eat was something he didn't like - pasta and bacon nd tomato - so he came home hungry.

I can't keep restricting all his usual foods and fluids (he refuses to drink water) as he's getting v distressed and we're not due back at the GPs till Tuesday.

I suppose it is good news that he looks a bit better and has managed a full day at school. But what do I feed him over the next few days that won't increase his wheat/ gluten intake - just in case he's intolerant to that - but will still avoid all additives, cheese and choc???

Solo, glad to hear he is feeling better and has managed to go back to school.

Poor ds must be feeling so deprived if he can't eat any of his favourite foods. Its so hard on them.

We've been very lucky because ds1 doesn't object to the gluten free versions of things and he has a sensory issue about the smell of chocolate, so he doesn't eat that anyway. He does miss some things though. He was distraught when he found out he couldn't have chips from the chip shop, although luckily a chip shop that does gf has just opened in the next village and we had tears today when he couldn't eat the fortune cookie he was given at school.

A few thoughts:

Have you tried posting in the allergies section? There are lots of people over there who have dc's with extremely restricted diets and they might be able to give you some ideas for meals/products that your ds might eat.

You can buy gluten free breadcrumb coating in Tescos (Ogran Wheat Free All Purpose Crumbs) so you could try coating chicken etc yourself. They do a big range of free-from foods, but you would have to check the ingredients for additives I suppose.

You could go on the Tesco/Sainbury/Waitrose/Asda websites, do some searches and read some labels to identify some foods he will eat or at least ones you think he might try.

Tescos FreeFrom Hot Cross Buns or Fruit Loaves are nice hot and buttered if he likes that sort of thing and might be an alternative to pain au chocolat for breakfast.

McCain Smiles (the potato smiley face things) are gluten free and have no additives as are most of their oven chips.

I'm told Sainsbury's do some gf ready meals such as lasagne, but don't shop there myself so haven't actually tried any.

Is there some other sort of treat he likes other than chocolate? Ds1 loves cherry bakewells and Tesco do a free from version that he likes. They also do Mrs Crimbles Macaroons (the ones without chocolate) that are gluten free and really sweet and sticky. When ds1 went gluten free we made sure we identified lots of 'nice' gf foods first so that he didn't feel deprived. So, it might cheer him up about the whole thing if you can find some treats he likes and can have.

I just googled the phrase 'buy gluten free food' and got back literally hundreds of hits where I could search out the products I thought he would be most likely to eat. Be warned though, most of them are not cheap.

Good luck x

DS2 is back in bed with another headache this morning, having claimed to be OK and had 2 days back at school. The only difference today is that I didn't give him Calpol first thing in the morning, whereas I have every other morning, as the GP advised last summer, during his other bout of headaches.

I assumed he was getting better but he was rubbing his eyes lots yesterday and looked still pale and was quiet this morning. He told me he'd lied and claimed to be OK thing morning as he wanted to go to his riding lesson at 12.30pm.

So I've now given him Calpol and he says he's starting to feel better. He's also been having lots of poos, watery eyes, dark rings under his eyes and low body temperatures.

Does all this indicate that the foods he's currently NOT having are NOT making him have a reaction and therefore could he now eat chocolate and cheese again?

I really wish the GPs was open at the w/e. His next appointment is not till Tuesday late afternoon and in the meantime, I'm full of questions and worries and as yet no answers.

Thank you for the food ideas. I did let him have a croissant with maple syrup yesterday and some custard cream biscuits, as a treat. Of course I've no idea if this was OK or not and as I didn't give him Calpol first thing, then this could be the factor that elicited the headache - not anything to do with food...

Hi Solo2. For exclusion diets, a minimum of 2 weeks is usually recommended to "clear the system" and allow any irritations to die down. After the 2 weeks is up you can assess whether or not things seem to have improved. Then you can start to re-introduce the foods, one at a time (take a week between each one) and see if any reactions occur.

There are lots of GF alternatives worth trying.

I would say at this stage that you can't excluded the possibility that cheese and chocolate are having an effect until you get rid of the gluten as well. Go GF for a minimum of 2 weeks while keeping him off the other stuff as well, and then start by bringing back the chocolate, see how that goes and then bring back the cheese etc etc.

Remember as well that daily dosing with painkillers isn't the answer, it is only a stopgap.

Have you told the GP about these other symptoms? low temp, dodgy bowels, dark rings under the eyes etc? I would go back and tell the GP and see if there are any other tests they can do, in case it's not food-related but something else instead.

Hi. Just saw this thread but re. Additives If you are trying to avoid them you will need to avoid calpol too because if has additives. There are other paracetemol versions that don't. There are also some addrive free squashes out there. Usuallly the ones that say sugar free are completely riddled with additives. Look got the ones that are based on pure fruit. Hope You find out what is going on. Once he has gotten everything out of his system they may try asking you to reintroduce things one at a time to see if if triggers anything.

Hi. Just saw this thread but re. Additives If you are trying to avoid them you will need to avoid calpol too because if has additives. There are other paracetemol versions that don't. There are also some additive free squashes out there. Usuallly the ones that say sugar free are completely riddled with additives. Look got the ones that are based on pure fruit. Hope You find out what is going on. Once he has gotten everything out of his system they may try asking you to reintroduce things one at a time to see if if triggers anything.

Thanks. This is all SO worrying and I feel at the end of my tether. He does have a double GP appointment booked for Tuesday late afternoon and I suppose we'll be able to ask more then.

He woke, he said, around 5am (he really doesn't sleep much and probably doesn't go to sleep till around 9.30pm or even 10pm, despite being in bed from 8.30pm till 7am).

He was fine on waking, he says but true to pattern, and despite more Calpol (I'll ask GP about this too on Tuesday) got a headache around 7.45am and went back to bed and lay down till about now, 10.15am. I've spent the whole morning so far tending to him and neglecting his twin, with yet another day affected.

I've got loads and loads of work to do - domestic and business related - and am so far behind and can't even get out to shop for foods, additive free painkillers etc,a s there's no one to help me out.

I just feel so worried and am really not convinced that anything is related to food issues at all. I was reading on the internet about morning headaches induced by sleep apnea and am wondering if this is a more likely cause?

Anyone any experience of this? As you can see, I'm searching for answers and feeling worried and alone. So I really appreciate all your support on MN

It is very common for children with ASD to have associated problems with gluten, dairy and E numbers. My son has had to exclude gluten and dairy since he was three.

the worst thing is that initially these foods will represent quite a strong craving - at the point that DS2 had to give them up they were in EVERYTHING he ate, without exception.
Worse still, when you exclude the foods often the first reaction is a worsening of the symptoms.

You may want to read this, written by Luke Jackson who has Aspergers and does GFCF

The good news is that if your son does have this intolerance then removing gluten and dairy and additives can show a massive improvement in general health and a reduction in ASD symptoms. It has been incredibly helpful for my son

Just had a thought, do children suffer from rebound headaches resulting from daily use of paracetamol? I know adults will get a headache if they take paracetamol daily for a while and then stop. Could this be clouding the issue do you think?

I only thought of it because I've had a throat infection for a week and have been taking paracetamol daily. Didn't take any this morning and got a humdinging headache as a result.