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Original poster

what do you think about paed's answer to 12 month old sleep problem?

57 replies

mad4myboys · 09/12/2009 14:48

ds2 has been poorley since he was born, bad reflux and digestion problems that they still dont know what it is but cant be anything bad as he is getting better. Anyway he has always woken average 3 times a night after going down around 7pm. I knew this was always down to the reflux and his tummy problems and a sleep study with lh study showed night wakings were down to refluxing. Amyway he is getting alot better and i dont think his reflux is causing him to wake. The paed said he thinks it is a behaviour problem that is common in children with these problems as the body is used to waking up in the night and he cant help it. Despite me doing controlled crying etc (something i cant carry on with as causing probs with ds1 sleep who is on melatonin at mo) i cant get him to sleep through. Paed said to not let him nap in the day but i see that as cruel as he obv still needs to nap.

Anyone??

OP posts:
TheProvincialLady · 09/12/2009 14:53

I don't think your paed has ever had to live with a 12 month old who has not had a nap in the daytime

TBH I don't think your 12m is doing too badly for his age and considering his reflux issues etc. I can't see that depriving him of naps is going to help, in fact it is more likely to disturb his night time sleep.

LaTrucha · 09/12/2009 14:59

I thikn that would be very difficult for you both. It doesn't sound to me like he's doing badly either.

Is he still in your room? DD - who was a horrible sleeper - got a lot better once we moved her into her own room. I think we were waking her up / reinforcing her waking in several ways - one of which was DH snoring. We did lots of other things too, but if he's still with you, it might be worth a try.

Original poster
mad4myboys · 09/12/2009 15:08

no he has always been in his own room. When he was small i used to sleep in his room to try to reduce noise for ds1.....

i dont agree with the cutting naps either...

OP posts:
LaTrucha · 09/12/2009 15:11

What does he want when he wakes up?

Original poster
mad4myboys · 09/12/2009 16:08

i dont actually know and i dont think he does either. He'll snuffle around in the cot moaning and i have tried getting to him before he cries and have also tried leaving him. Neither work and i have run out of ideas and the doctors are just leaving me to deal with it. It is like dealing with a newborn baby for a whole year. It is really affecting our family life now

OP posts:
LaTrucha · 09/12/2009 16:58

It did for us too. Hmm.

HAve you tried patting him rhythmically? Various kinds of stroking / patting helped DD not to come completely round.

You could try PUPD, as it involves picking the baby up as soon as it starts crying so may not disturb your other child as much as CC. IT's the Baby Whisperer method.

Original poster
mad4myboys · 09/12/2009 20:02

the pick up put down is awful for both of mine, to get him to go to sleep on his own we used more of a withdrawel type thing, patting his back for period of time, then nothing, then patting and so on but this has never worked during the night

OP posts:
foxinsocks · 09/12/2009 20:08

my goodness you have your hands full with sleep issues!

I think those with bad reflux often only start getting better after 1. Dd had her first full night's sleep at 15 months. Is he walking yet? As once they start walking a lot, it seems their tummies get stronger and it also tires them out so much more!

LaTrucha · 09/12/2009 20:18

It drove DD up the wall too, TBH but lots of people say it helped. Have you had a look at the No Cry Sleep Solution? Sounds like you might have

TBH, we did a modified form of CC in the end so can't really help you but we did do stuff from the NCSS which did improve things a bit.

Original poster
mad4myboys · 09/12/2009 20:19

hi fox, i remember having that conversation with you a while ago. Yes he has been walking about a month now..... im so desperate for him to sleep through it is really starting to affect him. Hes such a happy little boy but now really starting to look tired.

OP posts:
Original poster
mad4myboys · 09/12/2009 20:20

hi, sorry x post. Have looked into so many sleep solution thingys.

OP posts:
foxinsocks · 09/12/2009 20:23

I think there's a degree of truth to what the pead says.

I certainly found with ours (more so with the breathing problems) that they had got so used to waking up a lot and then compensating during the day (with naps) that it took a hell of a long time to right iyswim.

But I wouldn't cut a day time nap (unless it was completely excessive) for a 1 year old. It's the sort of thing I might start thinking about when they hit 2/2.5.

How long is he sleeping during the day?

CarGirl · 09/12/2009 20:28

with my refluxer it went on until she was nearly 4, yes FOUR at which point in desperation I took her to a cranial osteopath which did help a lot and then he referred us for treatment as she had too much adrenalin (due to retained moro reflex) so she had treatment for neuro developmental delay

www.inpp.org.uk/

and after that she slept through the night EVERY night apart from 1 in the 30 months since!

Just wish we'd gone sooner......

Original poster
mad4myboys · 09/12/2009 21:00

he has been having cranial since he was born and it is a friend of mine whom i trust...

his naps are a bit random. will go to sleep 10.30-11am and can sometimes sleep 2 hours but other times like today will wake really crying after 45 mins-1hour and i know he hasnt had enough sleep

OP posts:
CarGirl · 09/12/2009 21:15

It was the treatment for the neuro stuff that really helped but your ds is probably a bit young. They could check for adrenalin though it's about how your pupils dilate.

Mine didn't nap at all until she was 6.5 months old after she'd been given gaviscon until then she slept 11 hours out of 24 max, no floor time at all, can't think why her brain/body was a bit confused......

Original poster
mad4myboys · 10/12/2009 12:16

so depressing

OP posts:
Original poster
mad4myboys · 10/12/2009 13:08

my eldest is on melatonin for behaviour issues (another long story) and im so tempted (i havent) to give ds2 melatonin as what i have read about 'behavior' problems

OP posts:
sunshineandshowers · 11/12/2009 14:44

How long is he awake at night when he wakes? You could try leaving a cup of water in his cot, leaving a very low light on and some books out, see if he wakes, plays, drinks and passes out on his own.

You could be really extreme and arrange for DS1 to go away for a couple of nights, and then literally just leave him. It will be like hell and you will need both of you there, bt may be worth a crack. The earlier you do CC the better/quicker.

Just some ideas.

Alternatively, why don't you arrange to go away for a night once a month (if you normally get up) with some girlfriends, or go and stay at someones house to give yourself a break/ something to look forward to.

You have my sympathies. I know its facile to say, but it won't last forever.

Original poster
mad4myboys · 11/12/2009 19:18

generally not that long, depends! Generally 10 mins or so. He has a toy in bed, hadnt thought about books or a cup of water....

My eldest has never stayed away on his own and at the point we are with his health we couldnt do that as a 'first' right now. Or even one of us staying away with him somewhere as dh works long hours and also works abroad quite abit.

Dh does help where he can, inlaws have started staying over every other month for a night which really helps

OP posts:
SantaIsMyLoveSlave · 11/12/2009 19:44

Does he wake at regular times? If so, have you thought about trying "wake to sleep"?

The theory is that you set your own alarm for an hour (I think) before you expect the waking, then go in and rouse him to a semi-conscious state (so grunting/eyelids flickering/etc.) and then soothe him back to sleep. And in principle that sort of resets his internal "time until I wake up" counter, and he won't wake at the time he normally would have done. Then after a few nights you can stop doing the waking to sleep.

I've never tried it myself and some Mumsnetters have more success with it than others. And I have no idea how many nights you need to keep it up for.

lou031205 · 11/12/2009 20:06

mad4myboys, it's tough when you are sleep deprived, but he is a baby. 12 month olds don't have sleep problems, they just haven't learned to settle themselves yet.

Original poster
mad4myboys · 12/12/2009 08:44

he can settle himself to fall asleep when we put him down so he can do it.

santa, no he never ever wakes at the same time, every night is different. For example last night he slept 7pm till 4am but couldnt get him to sleep until 5.30am. To be fair that was a good night!

OP posts:
ExplodingBananas · 12/12/2009 20:33

I might be tempted to cut out his daytime nap for just one day and see if it helped at night. He might then be so tired he sleeps through and learns he can iyswim.

My 11mo has odd days here and there with no nap when he refuses to nap. I usually make sure he at least has some quiet time in his buggy and he is very tired by bedtime but he copes.

(also a serious refluxer btw so that might be why I have problems getting him to nap sometimes)

Original poster
mad4myboys · 18/12/2009 17:28

have been away this week and nothing was different, very active etc bt i do actually think it is a health thing not behavioural...

OP posts:
nightcat · 18/12/2009 17:57

u know, I would say the same, health thing influencing behaviour..

Whilst you can probably supplement melatonin, have you tried investigating why he might be deficient? This is probably not just due to melatonin deficiency, but a part of the picture.. have a read here as a start.

It struck me that melatonin deficiency can suppress immune system. Daft question, but is his bedroom completely dark at night? Light seeping in can also affect this.