you cannot buy medised for under 6 yr olds now

[bubblagirl]

i went pharmacy yesterday as medised is only thing that helps my ds when ill and child has to be 6 now to have medised

It is a number of reasons.

Paracematol double dosing is one (incidently it is the diphenhydramine hydrochloride which has been withdrawn both in combination with paracetamol and as a stand alone - so this cetainly isn'y the main reason)
Double dosing with a different anti-histamine is another
Variablity in children under 6's weight v correct dose another
Lack of clinically validated safety and efficacy studies in children
There are a number of adverse events associated with anti-histamines
There were even some nonsense drug combinations withdrawn which shows how crap the cough medicine indsutry had got. For example there were a couple of products which had an expectorant in (which loosens mucous so you can cough it up) and a anti-tussive (which prevents you coughing)!

But what it all comes down is that when the risk-benefit analysis the benefits didn't actually outweigh teh risks.

Ah. Well, I suppose for Riven, and for us, the benefits outweigh the risks.

Those cough medicines sound utterly nuts though!

In those circumstances - rather than giving Medised against the MHRA license I would at least approach teh Dr for a suitable prescription med.

I fully understand WHY you give it but I would at least look for a licesed option...and if it is refused (because there are licensed prescription options) THEN consider self medicating.

what about calpol nightime - does anyone know if the age for that is the same?

DS won't take medised anyone but it was a god send when he was teething.

Calpol night time over 6's only (it is the same drug as medised IIRC).

I think that the only over the counter products licensed for over 6's now are

Paracetamol
Ibuprofen
Glycerine syrup

• topical things like creams.

you mean under 6s don't you?

I bought piriton a couple of months ago for DS (who was then nearly 3) for chickenpox over the counter. has it all changed so quickly?

Oh yes - sorry I knew I would forget some. Piriton is fine.

Also did you know that Bonjela is not suitable for under 12's now either? The Bonjela teething product is fine. But big standard bonjela isn't.

i didnt know that i have big box of the stuff bought from wholesaler oh well i am prone to an ulcer so just for me now then lol

I can understand the need to manage risks and withdraw ineffective medicines but am feeling slightly uncomfortable that more and more meds are being withdrawn for the under 6's with no replacements.

IIRC there was a recentish report that paracetamol is problematic for small children and ibuprofen can be difficult for asthmatics and cause stomach upsets.

At this rate we may have nothing to give our small children to help with pain which seems very hard to me.

I also remember discussing Piriton with an allergy specialist following a reaction in DD1 at 10 months who was surprised that Piriton wasn't recommended for the under 1's. So I am wondering whether this is going too far.

i think the thing is that by withdrawing products some parents will either lie about their child's age to the pharmacist or give other combinations of drugs, that probably aren't needed. E.g piriton knocks DS out, some people may just give antihistamine to help sleep.

You can if you lie.

Yes but thats my point I don't want to lie (crap liar) I want something to help my DD's and am wondering what options I will have left...

what is it about medised that helps your dc particularly bakewell that other medicines don't do? I only ever used it at night to help DS sleep, other things like calpol and ibruprofen were fine during the day

Its not Medised that I'm concerned about its the withdrawal of medicines for under 6's. If you read my posts then you will see that there are issues with paracetamol and ibuprofen which to my mind are as serious as those associated with Medised and as such I see this as a wedge and could see other medicines being withdrawn. (BTW Calprofen best thing for DD1, not sure whether DD2 is a Calpol or Calprofen girl yet).

Ibuprofen is problematic for a subset of asthmatics of any age. That is not child specific.

Ibuprofen causes stomach problems if taken persistently on an empty stomach for any age. Some people are more susceptible that others.

The thing is that these subsets of patients know that they are prone to these adverse events. And there are proven and documented evdience of benefit for Ibuprofen. I find it difficult to believe that the risks will outweigh the benefits (although you never know it was only a couple of decades ago that asprin was given to children before being withdrawn).

Paracetamol - haven't heard of any evidence of specific problems with small people. It is reasonably well known that when given the wrong dose Paracetamol is very nasty.
Again - there are proven and well documented benefits of paracetamol.

And before you all come and say there are medical benefits of the cough medicines - that simply isn't supported by the documented literature. Yes it can help them to get some sleep as the anti-histamine knocks them out. This is actually an "adverse event" (i.e. side effect) and is not considered a medical benefit.

WRT Piriton in under 1's. Again it is an anti-histamine. I believe that it is licensed for use in under 1's but only on prescription (if not it might be a slightly different drug). Basically they are saying that it should be used with the guidance of a Dr.

If you are sure you want to use it on your dc, you can buy calcold online at boots.com. Just say you are ordering it for yourself. The thing is, that I actually do take calcold for myself. I started using it when DS1 was a baby and I wanted a cold remedy that would be safe to use while breastfeeding. When I explain to pharmacists, they clearly think I am lying to get hold of it for DS2 (13mo) so now I order it online.

Would you know whether Ibuprofen caused a problem for your DC? Interested as when DD1 is ill its my choice. Not had an averse reaction so we're probably OK.

The paracetamol thing I was thinking of was reported in 2008 news report. I think it was originally written up in the Lancet.

Glad to see Piriton is OK if prescribed as DD1 had a severe allergic reaction and used it under advice then.

I'm not sure I disagree with the view that cough medicines have benefits and am happy to comply with govt advice just really don't want to see the basics disappear and feel that with this current focus on taking precautionary action this might happen.

Oh yes I remember that report and I read teh original paper at the time. IIRC it wasn't clear if it was paracetamol that was causing the increased risk of asthma or whether the fact that the children required paracetamol regularly was just a marker for another underlying condition (e.g. weakened immune system). That was my interpretation anyway. I will follow it up and see if there has been anything since in the scientific literature when I have a moment.

I use ibuprofen in preference to paracetamol as there is some evidence that ibuprofen is better at REDUCING temp. Paracetamol stabilises temp.

The thing about Drs being able to prescribe meds to babies is that they can prescribe based pn weight which is safer than age. All medicines are developed with a dosage in mg/kg - this - for OTC products is converted to an age related dose as it avoids any mis-dosing by parents. However, not all children weigh the same (especially pre-schoolers) which is one of the major contributing factors to the withdrawal.

I would be interested in that. Also nice to see that I'm not the only one who uses ibuprofen in preference.

WRT weights and ages that is a very fair point but must also apply to straight paracetamol and ibuprofen sold OTC?

Yes it does but the therapeutic margin is reasonably large so you can child a wide range of weights with the same dose (which is still within safety margins for a below th e5th percentile) and still get a therapeutic effect. As I understand it it is not the same for other classifications of meds.

As it happens my DTDs were prem and therefore abnormal weight for age. For their first 2 years I administered paracetamol and ibuprofen by weight rather than age.

Which is probably absolutely true.

BUT the patient information leaflet (I believe) states that it shouldn't be taken on an empty stomach - and a pharmacist shouldn't really have recommended doing so.

Of course I asked the GP, with regard to medicating dd2 - GP, as I said earlier, recommended Medised.

Even A&E paediatricians said things like 'absolutely, whatever keeps her, and you, going until her operation' when I asked them.

But this wasn't a child with a bit of a cold, or a sleep problem.

And it was also before the regulations changed the age limit to 6, it was Dec/January.

I do agree that the drug companies had gone over the top with endless, dodgily sedative options for babies, in the past year or two...but I also think things have swung hard in the opposite direction now, in reaction. Still better than giving too much, of course.