Does life get easier with a very challenging child aged 8?

[Bigworldsmallgirl]

Hi I posted on here maybe 2 years ago about my daughter and I feel so sad reading that post because not only has there been no change since then things have got worse and now we have a 4 month old too .
I feel so bad talking negatively about my daughter but her behaviour is literally ruining the peace in this house . Arguments every day . She is still waking up mean to me. I’ve read the books , I’ve watched the therapists on YouTube , I’ve took on the advice on here but she is how she is .
She’s mean to my family members and rude . Calls everyone a fat pig , idiot , ugly fat . It honestly makes me so sad because me and my sisters are really close and love having everyone together but now the vibe is just off . My daughter who is now 8 years old will just be mean to everyone and horrid to my sisters , who even though take the abuse from her still let her back in their homes to give me a break .
i decided last year after years of not wanting to have another with her being so difficult to have another baby because I always wanted another and felt I still had so much love in me to give. When she found out I was pregnant she was excited and positive about the pregnancy but still generally mean to me .
Baby came and we’re back to square one but this time it feels worse . This time I feel like when she is shouting or being rude to me we now have someone else we need to protect , we now need to make sure when she is pushing everyone about the baby don’t get hurt .
I always get asked to give examples but it’s so hard because it’s all day long like she refuses to listen to , I can never ask her to do anything , she is rude in how she speaks to me, she comes in my face , she drains the life out of me . There hasn’t been a single day probably in the last 4 years that I’ve not told her off .
Rewards , praise , spending time 1-1 . Like I said I’ve tried it all . I’ve kept up with it even whilst has has been mean to me but none of it works . She just doesn’t care .
I feel so sad because even though she’s how she is I still give her all my time. I take her out every moment we’re together , I buy her things , do activities with her . She’s even put before the baby ( I thank god he is so chilled and doesn’t cry much because I don’t think I’d be able to deal with her behaviour and a crying baby )
she was seen by CAHMs after 2 years waiting and is on the waiting list for an assessment for ADHD and Autism . I know I’m going to get stick on here and told I need to suck it up but I don’t think I should have to tolerate hitting from my own child .

I just want to hear from any mums who had a really challenging child from ages 4-8 years when does it get easier . Did they ever get easier ? Is this our life forever now .

thank you and sorry it’s so long .
I’ve even tried to find a hypnotherapist to hypnotise her good 😂🙈 I’m desperate here.

My child was very trying. Sent home from school most days, because they didn't know how to cope with her. Finally found out she had adhd.
The doctors refused to give her ritalin. In fact, they knew next to nothing about adhd. It was the early 90s.
A friend told me about cranial osteopathy, a gentle treatment that rebalances the nervous system. We got into the Osteopathic Centre for Children in London. She had a treatment fortnightly for a good few months.
From being nearly expelled from school (I took her out for 6 months before they could expel her!) she's now a lawyer! I dread to think where she would have ended up without that treatment.
The OCC was a charity back then, I'm not sure if they still operate in the same way. It might be worth looking into though. If not there, there are plenty of osteopaths do cranial osteopathy too.
Good luck with everything x

@Itsjustmethatsall well that is really good to hear . I did look in to this when she was born actually because even as a baby she cried a lot and was told it may have something to do with her born by forceps ( not sure how much truth is in it )
what age did your daughter see the osteopath? And how many sessions did it take to notice a difference ? I’m trying to find someone local to me . I’m so desperate I would try anything .
today has been another day of the same. It’s literally depressing . Tried to take her out on a day out and all she does is moan , shout out to, scream out randomly , demanding , controlling . I really want us to have a better mother/ daughter relationship.
xx

My dc was difficult at that age and had been since the age of three. Sorry to say but they got worse at age 10 when puberty started.

What is your dc like at school? Mine was even worse at school than at home and they were out of school for two years.

have you considered she is autistic with a PDA profile?

only reason I say this is because the pda can make them mean , I see it in my own home, its called equalizing behaviour. Your dd is sounding ND... but I think you need to look into it.

This sounds a lot like Pathalogical Demand Avoidance, and it may be worth reaching out to the autistic society to get some support and coping strategies.

https://childmind.org/article/pathological-demand-avoidance-in-kids/

“Pathological demand avoidance (PDA) is a pattern of behaviour in which kids go to extremes to ignore or avoid anything they perceive as a demand.”

this is key, anything she perceives as a demand, including behaving ‘nicely’ etc.

https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/behaviour/demand-avoidance

My youngest child is autistic with PDA profile (and severe ADHD and numerous other needs ) and like a couple of others suggested PDA was my first thought.

My child’s needs are very complex, multiple diagnoses before school age, EHCP written for special school from the start etc. I cannot even try to describe the crazy extreme of challenging behaviour we dealt with from literal baby stage til around age 6 or 7, which was when needs had been consistently met for a good couple of years. At the worst often seemed to be as nasty and violent as possible for no apparent reason and I was frequently in fear of both children’s lives as a result.

Our whole lives are essentially centred around meeting our child’s needs and once we had that all figured out - including the incredibly bespoke specialist education our PDAer needs - honestly our child changed so much for the better. That’s not to say we don’t do anything for anyone else; our other child is also well supported and we as adults now manage hobbies etc but everything is done in mind with our PDAer and ensuring their needs are also met (often this means we have to do most things separately not as a family of four),.

Our child (approaching 10) is now a lovely, thoughtful, generous, sweet child. So so different from the child we thought we were raising a few years ago. They have highly complex needs so yes it’s hard but they are no longer nasty, violent, verbally abusive… we’ve turned it around in a massive way. The right approach in every aspect of life, plus meds for ADHD and anxiety among other things, have been crucial.

It was about a year, once a fortnight. The effects lasted longer and longer as time went on. I know exactly what you're facing on days out - my daughter was just the same. It's awful isn't it. I got to the stage that if someone had said that I had to stand on my head in the corner for three hours every day in order to have a better behaved child, I'd have gladly done it 🙄
Sadly, it's not cheap. I was a single parent on benefits - couldn't go to work as she was sent home most days, so we qualified for free treatment. It's worth looking into if you can get to London. It's only about an hour from here.
They do say sometimes it's as a result of birth trauma - in our case, extended breech, and a lot of congenital hip problems too, plus of course, the adhd. She was around 7/8 when she started the treatment.

Thank you for all your responses .
I even feel bad writing about her so negatively but the mood at home is not nice.

I have read about PDA previously and followed a group and she ticks all the boxes . I have looked at supporting her with the outlook that it’s that though no formal diagnosis. I’m sure we’re looking a good few years before any assessment happens .

@TurquoiseSloth really good to hear your response . And it’s always nice to hear that things have got better for someone I really hope things improve for us at home too . I love my daughter so much and just wish we could start enjoy being around each other .

@Sunnynight01 she is definitely her full extent at home. At school she starts off very quiet and told she is shy but a few months in she’s getting in trouble and everyone is shocked because usually she is the quiet one the watcher .
I think she may be going through early puberty she has already developed breast buds and hairy armpits .

thanks for all responses .

@Itsjustmethatsall yes the one you suggested it’s far for me I’m close to Coventry but have seen some local to me that specialise in behavioural regulation.
that made me laugh about balancing on your head because honestly I would do anything I just want peace. Like I get children can be cheeky I don’t mind I know kids can be naughty . But this is day in day out all day until I’m in tears . I always find it’s like she has won and snaps out of it when I either cry or get frustrated. I try to just move to another room .
thanks again for your response x

So...she has been told off every day for the last 4 years?? What does that look like for her? It has to have an impact on the way she feels about the relationship between the two of you. Have you tried consistently praising the good behaviour and ignoring the 'bad' behaviour?

Oh bless you, you’ve never met a truly challenging child.

I knew there would be one and as I said if anything she struts around like she owns the place. Half the time I don’t even tell her off because I know it’s losing battle .
she gets taken out a lot probably more than most because I’ve already tried what you’re getting at but it makes no difference . She’s even being bossy , shouting whilst being praised .
sorry I don’t mean to snap back but if it was that easy .
like I said I don’t mind her being a little naughty . I speak to her and tell her what’s right and wrong . If anything im constantly told im too soft on her .
best wishes to you @gracioushoratio

https://braintrainuk.com/

I don’t know any parents who have kids who had this therapy but heard good things about Brain training Neurofeedback. Maybe could be an option to help? There’s a few companies offering this but again, like cranial osteopathy, it’s expensive

Ultimately the behaviour is most likely a reflection of unmet needs. And I don’t say that as a criticism of you - I described life with my extreme PDAer above and meeting those needs is hard and for a long time we were failing at it.

But likely your child’s needs are not being met. And a big part of this, sadly, is often school. I believe that PDA Society research shows that 70% of PDAers aren’t in school (I can’t remember if it was at all, or regularly). School fundamentally doesn’t work for a lot of PDAers 😕