Anyone chosen to pay for MMR vaccine instead of having the new MMRv?

[lovesT]

no anti vaccines talk please! I'm doing my research.

Took my son for his 3 year 4 month jabs yesterday. For some reason hadn't fully clicked that they had added the varicella (chicken pox) vaccine to the MMR.

My daughter had the MMR but not varicella as it wasn't rolled out when she was a toddler.

I felt a bit flustered and nurse said I could go away and think about it if I felt I needed to. He had the 4 in 1 but not the MMRv.

If I could choose just the MMR I'd be happy. I know there are possible side effects of both but was planning not to have the chicken pox vaccine when it wasn't on NHS. Has anyone decided to pay for it privately and just get the MMR?

Am I over reacting? I just wasn't prepared for something different to what my daughter had and I feel like they emphasised the encephalitis rare side effect but I'm not actually sure the risk is any higher than MMR.

Ant thoughts? Anyone done similar?

*I'm not saying he won't have MMR (I would plan to go back to GP and get what they offer after research or pay privately if possible for just MMR.)

Thanks!

I have facial scars from chickenpox & DH has suffered a horrible bout of shingles. My mum also has recurrent nerve pain from shingles.

We paid for DS to have the vaccine, and I'm delighted baby DD will be able to have it for free.

Theres some good research papers referenced here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/childhood-varicella-vaccination-programme-jcvi-advice-14-november-2023/jcvi-statement-on-a-childhood-varicella-chickenpox-vaccination-programme#updated-evidence-reviewed

On longevity of chicken pox vaccination - it’s worth properly understanding the data.

When I poked into it the summary seemed to be that at the moment the protection is lasting similarly to getting chicken pox, but the reported time periods are limited to how long the vaccine has been around.

(ie. You can’t demonstrate 40 year effectiveness when it’s only been around 25).

When we took the mmr we werent offered the new one, with chicken pox added, and we decided against paying for it privately as wanted her to catch it.

Why did you want her to catch it, rather than getting a vaccine though? Sorry, genuine question, as it sounds like you wanted this to happen for reasons other than cost. I’m just curious as I don’t understand the reasoning. Glad it all worked out fine.

What kind of ‘research’ are you doing? Are you medically or scientifically educated to understand this ‘research’?

yes you are overreacting. Get your child vaccinated and protected.

There're supposed to be fewer side effects by getting MMR separately from the Varicella vaccine. I suppose they lump them together for cost reasons. If you do get them separately then you either give on the same day or leave 4 weeks between them

And my ds had chickenpox at 6 months old and shingles age 3. Chickenpox vaccine wasnt really heard of when my kids were younger

She eats well, she is active, spends time outdoors - a perfectly healthy child. Her body is equipt to fight mild illnesses and i believe its important that it does. I accept that catching mild illnesses is part of life. I had chicken pox as a kid, as did my siblings and my parents. For all of us, as with the vast majority of people it is a mild illness. I didnt see any reason to fear it or take steps to prevent it.

They will be offered one dose in the catchup campaign starting November.

If the MMRv had been available when my children were younger i would have allowed it 100%. Unfortunately we couldn't afford it privately, and then all 3 of my children had chicken pox within a month of each other, 2 were ok just a bit uncomfortable and itchy but my other son was so poorly. He ended up on regular paracetamol to keep his temperature down and also antibiotics because some spots had become infected. I have never seen my boy so ill, the doctors were considering hospital for him at one point. Luckily the antibiotics kicked in and he picked up.

For many its just another child hood illness, but for some its really awful. Hopefully you come to the the right decision for you and your child.

Okay, thank you.

I had experienced seeing a couple of children really ill with it (though they were at home, not serious enough to be hospitalised). They were left with some mild scarring too. I think that made up my mind for me when it came to making a decision for my own kids.

I don’t think going through illness necessarily strengthens the body either. Shingles risk is lessened if you get the chickenpox vaccine, for example, rather than catching it naturally.

I do not understand the lassez faire attitude people seem to have to chicken pox. I paid privately for my daughter had the vaccine but she was one of the very small minority who caught it anyway – thankfully, because she was vaccinated it was a super mild dose but she was still pretty miserable with it. One of her friends from school had an awful time and ended up in hospital with sepsis (thankfully she recovered). Yes, for most children it's mild (though can be very uncomfortable) but the risk of serious complications is, demonstrably and statistically, higher than the risk of complications from the vaccine, so why on earth wouldn't you just get the vaccine?!

Older DS got chicken pox 7 days before due to fly on holiday, luckily mild and we managed to go. Younger DS came out in spots during transit on way home. Whole holiday overshadowed by the timing of when baby DS would come out in spots. Sorry Op i think you are overthinking - the vaccine has been given in other countries for decades .

Interesting. Could you provide some evidence, please?

do you think its likely that your online research will come up with better evidence or judgement than a national panel of immunologists and indectious disease speicialists, who have decided to offer it to all children at a cost to the health budget?

why do you think that it has been added on?

Both my kids (aged 7 and 2) just had chicken pox and I really wouldn’t recommend this as a better option than the vaccine. It’s a really unpleasant illness and my youngest has scars that will never fade on his beautiful little face. There are side effects of the illness too and they unknowns as you don’t know how it will affect your child.

Obviously if you have concerns about other aspects of the vaccine that’s a different thing but just responding here to the idea that getting the illness is the best option. In my opinion, it’s not.

But that’s the whole point - chicken pox is not always a mild illness. For some, it’s just itchy spots and a mild fever, for others, it can leave them seriously unwell in hospital.

Clearly the experienced doctors and scientists have realised there is more harm to be had to children by leaving them to get chicken pox and see what category they fall into.

It really has nothing to do with a child being healthy and eating well, but I am glad your child wasn’t that unwell with it.

I paid for mine to have the chicken pox vaccine. If I have the opportunity to prevent my child getting a potentially nasty illness, then I will grab it with both hands. We're so privileged to even have this option.

Exactly. And for my dd it would have been categorised as "mild" medically in that her life was never in danger and it lasted less than a week. But she was tortured by painful sores in her most sensitive areas (not to be too graphic). There's no money I wouldn't have spent at that point to take the pain away. It's so awful to see your child suffer like that. It was so, so bad.

The chickenpox vaccine has been around for over 30 years now- the US has had it on their schedule since 1995. There aren’t any concerns about immunity waining yet.

As for catching it in the wild, there’s never a guarantee of a mild case, and even a mild case is horribly uncomfortable and results in minimum a week off school (and work for you, per child). Also it’s becoming increasingly unlikely as so many people have been vaccinating privately even before the NHS introduced it. I can’t remember ever hearing of a chickenpox case at school or nursery and my kids are 8 and 5. So good chance your kids will never catch it in childhood and they’ll have to be vaccinated when older before they reach adulthood and catching it would be a lot worse. So IMO may as well just get it done now.

Also, with measles outbreaks and how dangerous that can be I wouldn’t delay it for the sake of research or arranging the MMR only privately. In my area they’re doing the preschool booster early.

A couple of points here:

1. Immunity from the vaccine is long-lasting. Those who have previously claimed that it "only lasts ten years" or whatever had substituted the words "at least" for only. The longer the vaccine is around the better the evidence base is for the duration of protection.
2. The vaccine has near-total effectiveness when given in childhood; effectiveness drops quite a bit when given in teen or adult years.
3. The vaccine massively reduces the risk of getting shingles in later life.

My own healthy, strong immune system, robust kid was one of those who unfortunately got chickenpox badly. I'm gutted for him that he also now has a much higher risk of shingles later in life than his younger brother, who we paid to have vaccinated as early as possible.

So glad the UK has finally caught up with the rest of the developed world on this one.

Plenty of mild illnesses available to catch without inviting one that can lead to debilitating illness in later life.

But thats like saying the common cold isnt always mild for some, it can leave some seriously ill and push them to develop other things. I see what your getting at but I think on this occasion its perfectly reasonable not to take it. If you ranked vaccines high to low on importance, for the vast majority, chicken pox vaccine would be at the lower end. Of course you can argue not taking it carries a risk but vaccines carry risks too so that should also be considered. In my opinion, i made the right decision for my child.

And it also might not - and for the majority, that is the case! But if my daughter chooses to take the shingles vaccine later in life, then thats completely up to her.

Shingles can happen well before the vaccine is available and lead to financial disadvantage as well as the impacts of the disease.

It's an interesting cost-benefit analysis. There is extremely limited evidenced benefit to getting chicken pox in childhood and very considerable evidenced downsides.

What evidence base are you using for your view that it's important that healthy children get chicken pox?

I think there's a misconception that the immune system is like a muscle that you work out, and taking a vaccine doesn't work it out so you end up with a feebler immune system. Or something. But that isn't how it works at all. It comes from people misunderstanding analogies that people make about catching enough colds to strengthen your immunity. You need immunity to a good variety of viruses to be healthy but doing it the hard way isn't more "strengthening"