MMR and anti vax chat at the school gates

[Snog]

I was influenced on MMR by Tony Blair who refused to confirm that his own son had the vaccine. Did this affect anyone else in their decision?

Go on, OP, tell us what are the "serious adverse events" that you believe vaccines can cause. Give us examples.

academic.oup.com/cid/article/61/6/980/451431

This is a link to a review based on the serious adverse event reporting system specifically related to vaccines for the USA which is called VAERS.

See also
www.nvic.org/vaccines-and-diseases/measles/measles-vaccine-injury-death.aspx
For examples of deaths caused by MMR vaccine.

I worked for several years in clinical research but I am not an expert in the field of vaccines.

Many vaccines that we use at the moment have life changing or fatal effect on a very small minority of the people who take them.

Governments are right to promote vaccination campaigns that serve the greater good of their population but individuals are not wrong to try to protect their own loved ones from being among the small minority sacrificed for the greater good.

My original point however is that we have problems with vaccine take up when people lose confidence in the advice provided by government. For example governments can choose cheaper, less safe vaccines. In the early 2000s less information was readily available on the internet than now.

I think vaccination is a wonderful thing but I don't always blindly follow the advice of government, particularly if the head of government seems to not follow this same government advice for his own family.

Yes, I'm not aware either of the serious adverse effects either, unless you mean autism? Hmmm?

Snog have a look at the references on that webpage. They've included the Wakefield study (ref 45) so clearly not a reliable source of information.

Soz, ref 40

I'm allergic to nuts. My body has a potentially fatal adverse reaction to them. Doesn't mean that other parents shouldn't try them with their children or that the government is hiding information on who else could have adverse reactions.

A small minority (to use your phrase) of people will have an adverse reaction to almost anything.

We haven’t discussed Cameron’s DC or Johnson’s.

Johnson wouldn't know. Not sure he knows all their names.

Governments are right to promote vaccination campaigns that serve the greater good of their population but individuals are not wrong to try to protect their own loved ones from being among the small minority sacrificed for the greater good.

That makes no sense. Adverse reactions to the NHS schedule of vaccines are vanishingly rare. Adverse reactions to Mumps, Measles and Rubella are certain.

Parents who don't vaccinate (without a medical reason) are not protecting their child, they putting them at risk.

Follow your doctor's advice.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3336455/Secret-report-reveals-18-child-deaths-following-vaccinations.html

This is a rather crude attempt at an "anti-vax by stealth" thread, isn't it?

Disingenuous opening post which makes it look a bit like OP is trying to explain why she didn't vaccinate back when the disinformation round Wakefield's (now retracted) paper was at its height. (Which was an understandable if mistaken approach at the time).

Then rapidly turns the thread round to "but here's a shit load of spurious anti-vax links" plus a random "respect mah authoritah" (Cartman voice) throwaway line about "I've got a biology degree you know".

Still an anti-vax conspiracy thread. Just a not terribly good attempt at pretending it isn't.

That 13 year old article even states that complications are extremely rare and usually linked to other unknown complicating factors. It also ends with an expert confirming there safe. Sounds good to me.

They're. Not there. Humph

None of the vaccines have ever been tested against a placebo.

That's actually quite funny.

And if he'd said Leo had had his vaccinations he'd have been vilified for 'using' his children in a political argument. TB and CB were protective of their children, I was going to say extremely protective but surely any of us would feel the same.

If I'd known for sure that Leo B had NOT had the MMR it would have been present in my mind but tbh quite intelligent people do get sucked into the most appalling bullshit. I used to cast horoscopes FGS at the same time I was doing A levels and applying to read for a degree. CB is now known to have got into crystals or whatever it was at one point. It's easy to overestimate your own mental strength: many of us find comfort in obvious nonsense sometimes if it makes a pretty pattern.

I was a history student so I know that vaccinations have always been fought against right back to the very beginning of their use - eg the cholera epidemics of 1832. They are the only rational choice for MOST people unless there is a specific medical deficit that increases the otherwise negligible/practically nonexistent risk of a complication.

blue you should speak to my friend....who is a professor in immunology. She'll tell you all about the vast amount of research that had been done on vaccines.

Her advice.... vaccinate your children unless advised not to by a medical professional.

Im 45 and wasn't vaccinated as a child. Living in King Kong as an ex pat family I contracted, whooping fought, diphtheria and measles. I was so sick on 3 separate occasions and nearly died.

My educated Dr mother struggled with her decision as I nearly died!

My kids are vaccinated!!

OP - it’s hard to prove causation. A lot of the reports are correlation: ie child had xyz condition and prior to this had abc, cde exposure. May be nothing to do with vaccine.

It boils down to whether the total individual risk is higher when a significant proportion choose not to vaccinate vs a small proportion (if more people do not vaccinate, individual risk of measles increases as does side effects of measles - which are probably at least as extensive and have higher probability than the purported vaccine side effects). This also does not take into account people who are not able to receive live vaccines due to immunodeficiency or anaphylaxis to components. This group will be adversely affected through no choice of their own. They rely on herd immunity for their own safety.

I wonder if you would have this attitude to antibiotics in cases of suspected sepsis? Do we worry out of proportion to the risk compared to other treatments/activities? Do people look up all the side effects of paracetamol before taking a dose?

Everyone talks about their child and vaccinations. We need “herd immunity” to protect those who cannot be vaccinated. Some DC cannot tolerate vaccinations but would be covered by everyone else having them. So it’s selfish not to have them done. It means others die from the diseases and we have already lost our vaccination status.

Btw, it is not wrong to be cautious about meds and read the side effects and be aware . But it would be good to talk to a Dr if you have concerns as they may be able to put things in perspective by putting the risk in context. See link below on encephalitis:

www.encephalitis.info/measles-infection-and-encephalitis

My point is really about the impact of government behaviour on public confidence in the vaccination programme.

My dd is now grown up and has had her vaccinations. I'm not anti vax as I have already said.

The NHS is putting out stories about "school gate chat" being responsible for drop in uptake of vaccinations. I'm challenging this as MMR vaccinations take place before children start school. I'm challenging this blaming of mothers and laying blame at the door of the behaviour of government and the NHS for their patronising approach to dealing with lack of public confidence.

Then why are you bringing up something from 20 years ago that most current parents of babies won't even know about?

Very random.

'School gate chat' isn't meant to be literal ffs - it's a shorthand for parents spreading information/misinformation about something when they are all together. It includes nursery-gate chat for clarity. If that helps.

OP seriously, you want to be careful who you are influenced by regarding your children.
Do your own homework and make your own mind up, surely your children are worth this

So if
NHS
health visitors
midwives
Bounty flyers
GPs
GP nurses
most parenting websites
WebMD
NICE
Surgery posters
Chief Medical Officers

all tell us to vaccinate,
but ONE politician declines to discuss his private citizen child's medical records, that means we can blame the govt for low uptake.

Not Andrew Wakefield, not the parents & attorney who hired him, not trolls in Macedonia writing any exciting rubbish click-bait they can imagine, not people who refuse to use their brains, not Robert Deniro or Robert Kennedy Jr not antiEstablishment populism but just ONE politician who left elected office 12 yrs ago is to blame.

Sure, you believe that. Would you like to buy a bridge in Brooklyn, btw?

I don't find patronising comments particularly helpful or called for here let alone the unwarranted personal insults which have been deleted by mumsnet upthread.

come on OP, you are asking for it. WTF bases their most important choices for their children on what a PM says, who are known for lying.
Patronising comments should be the least of your worries if you really can't see what you did.