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Children's health

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Original poster

Desperately needing help with cannulating DD

42 replies

123Holly · 27/09/2019 13:07

DD who is 4 has had dental issues due to severe milk allergy and being on neocate as a baby.
There is a lot of decay and recently she has had horrible abscesses in the gum and it has been agony.
DD is not very trusting of strangers especially docs and nurses as she broke her arm and remembers being held down etc and needed to be canulated just a couple months ago which was a nightmare. They blew the vein and she had to be restrained to get it in the other hand.
After months on the waiting list for a general anaesthetic for abstraction of 7 teeth and our appointment was Wednesday. We met the dentist and anaesthetist, and waited to go down. The anaesthetist was pretty straight to the point checking name and DOB. No chit chat but that was ok.
And no trick in the book was keeping her distracted and still. She was kicking about and crying. And the anaesthetist said to her she was being too naughty and now she would have to go and wait for the other boys and girls to be done. So another couple hours in the waiting room with a thirsty and hungry child and I was practicing the mask it’s her, and showing her how her hands were numb and I thought she would do it. But same thing again kicking and screaming and the anaesthetist said she was being really naughty and upsetting everyone. And that she could just go home and keep on having a sore mouth and that the waiting list is long enough with boys and girls that want help. DD then cried and said ok she would do it, but the anaesthetist said no she didn’t get to be naughty kicking up a fuss then have her own way.
As soon as we were out I just cried all afternoon about the whole thing. Embarrassment that I couldn’t control my child (who is usually really good). Made to feel bad by the anaesthetist.
I just don’t know what to do. We will get sent another appointment. I tried to prepare her before this one. I’ve spoken to the health visitor who said she wasn’t sure what to do in this situation.
Please any advice would be greatly appreciated.

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

HairyMaclary · 27/09/2019 13:14

You need tobaks for a sedative first. When the appointment comes around d again, make sure your DDs fears about anaesthesia are clear onnjer notes and you are very clear with all medical staff. The sedative will need to be given time to work before you go down for the op so make sure everyone knows in advance.

It's a horrible feeling. Afterany operations with my two I started to refuse to hold them down for the gas mask as one of them will need future operations and I refused to allow a fear of them to develop. Sedation was the answer, even of they struggle it's with much less ferocity and they don't remember.

timeforawine · 27/09/2019 13:14

No advice but your poor daughter being spoken to like that, she's a scared child ffs, the anaesthetist was being a dick and if can't show empathy towards a scared child they shouldn't be working with them.
I hope she can overcome this but i understand why she's traumatised.

Herocomplex · 27/09/2019 13:14

She’s 4? I’m really shocked that’s the best they could do in the circumstances. Especially the ‘naughty’ comment, that’s unacceptable, she’s frightened.

Get in touch with PALS at the hospital, explain the problem. Maybe she needs to work with a play therapist based at the hospital, so she can build up some familiarity.

Sirzy · 27/09/2019 13:23

They can wait until she is asleep to cannulate.

Ask for pre med if needed to relax her and then use the gas to get to sleep.

lakequeen · 27/09/2019 13:23

Anaesthetist sounds shit, no bedside manner when dealing with a scared four year old!!

Original poster

123Holly · 27/09/2019 13:24

I asked if she could be sedated but they said the only way they can sedate is through a canula. Is there an oral form we could request?
Forgot to say the nurse taking us out was lovely and totally understanding and felt bad about what was said. She had a four year old also and said that she understood.
The hospital called me first thing yesterday to ask me in for a meeting but haven’t said what for. But I will be saying that I don’t want the same anaesthetist again.

OP posts:

Original poster

123Holly · 27/09/2019 13:25

Oh and she is petrified of the masks. Bad enough trying to get clothes over her face everyday!

OP posts:

Sirzy · 27/09/2019 13:27

I would certainly ask for some play therapy then they can help her be ready for whichever method she decide is best

Sirzy · 27/09/2019 13:33

Also we never use magic cream as for ds this increases the anxiety, we use the spray which works instantly

Soontobe60 · 27/09/2019 13:34

I wonder what the hospital will want to say to you? I should imagine that the anaesthetist has been reported by another member of staff.
Regarding the cannula, she really has to have this done moving forward. My DD had hers fitted in the ward when she had her tonsils out, they did this with all the children. Ask if this is a possibility. The anaesthetic room is scary enough to an adult! However, she may well have to be restrained as she's so terrified and no amount of cajoling will change her mind. If she's sat on your knee in a firm hold with a play therapist distracting her it will lessen the trauma, but you will have to be quite strong with her,
Good luck, and let us know how you get on.

BlueCornsihPixie · 27/09/2019 13:35

I think the aneasthetist was being really unfair.

She's 4 and she's scared, of course she's going to behave like that! It's perfectly normal for a 4 yr to behave like that before a GA.

They must have experienced this before, it's completely unacceptable to leave a 4 year old with pain and infection because you have no bedside manner and can't be bothered to properly work out how to get them under GA. That's really poor

Herocomplex · 27/09/2019 13:37

OP were you ok when you were with her, or were you feeling upset? If you’re finding it stressful would she be better with another trusted adult? Or taking someone along who’s there to support you?

Original poster

123Holly · 27/09/2019 13:39

I’m also thinking next time getting someone else to take her down. Is that bad? My nurse friend said she would be happy to take her down. She might not be so reluctant for someone else?

OP posts:

Sirzy · 27/09/2019 13:40

As long as it is someone she trusts ifs fine. Last time Ds had a GA the play specialist who had been with him all morning came into the room, she could see me filling up so took over to help ds.

frogsoup · 27/09/2019 13:41

Hang on, when my DD had her adenoids and tonsils out, they put her under using just a mask, they cannulated her afterwards. The anaesthetist sounds astonishingly unprofessional and I'd be raising merry hell. At 14 you could just about understanding the value of a stern reminder of why they need a procedure to happen, but at 4 that's completely mad.

han01uk · 27/09/2019 13:41

They are talking rubbish...ask for some buccal midazolam (goes under the tongue) to calm her down. Then she goes to sleep with the gas and they can cannulate when she is asleep. My son has had over 30 anaesthetics aged 2-4yrs and the worst part is holding them down for any procedure. Even if they are "prepared",they don't want it to happen and can't rationalise like adults why it's happening,so calling her naughty is very unfair. Ask for a play specialist next time you are there to come into the room with you. Please don't take it to heart,what was said to you is very unfair,there are no children on this planet who wouldn't be worried about an anaesthetic.

AlexaAmbidextra · 27/09/2019 13:50

I worked with a lovely anaesthetist who was brilliant with anxious children. He would hold the anaesthetic tube without the mask in his cupped hand just above the child’s face while talking quietly to them. Probably some H&S reason why you can’t do that these days but it used to work beautifully.

Original poster

123Holly · 27/09/2019 13:56

Yes I had a thought she might sook through a tube/straw rather than a mask but don’t know if that’s allowed.
I hope we can come up with a better plan after this meeting next Friday.

OP posts:

Notmyideamovingon · 27/09/2019 13:57

My ten yearold is on the waiting list for dental surgery and they've said he will be sedated, then use the mask then canulated when he's out. That anaesthetist attitude was completely unacceptable. Please please make a formal complaint. Tell your child he was the naughty one not her!

Robs20 · 27/09/2019 14:01

My dd was put under GA using a mask and then cannulated after. She was notoriously hard to cannulate and always had to have them in her scalp. I would definitely ask for this - and would complain about the nasty attitude of the anaesthetist.

OverTheHandlebars · 27/09/2019 14:03

I'm surprised they persisted with trying to cannulate her. A gas induction is incredibly standard for that age group. She wouldn't be able to suck through a tube etc but would it help if she held the mask herself?

Pre-medicating children with oral medication is also definitely possible. It's not needed that often and some anaesthetists don't like it but it's definitely an option if she really can't manage any other way.

Northernlurker · 27/09/2019 14:07

If they've asked you to come in there's a good chance it's because somebody has complained about the anaesthetist. And if they haven't you should! Terrible treatment of a child not to mention a wasted list space.

Original poster

123Holly · 27/09/2019 14:08

Tried everything with the mask as well. Didn’t matter who held it.
But while we were waiting she was practicing with the mask and she was fine. So I’m not sure if we could do anything differently with that.

OP posts:

chinateapot · 27/09/2019 14:12

Wow! That’s dreadful.
Very normal for kids that age to need restraining for procedures - mine is 7 next week and despite all the play therapy and magic cream in the world bloods etc are still a hold her and get it done fast process.
She’s had a few recent GAs and the anaesthetists have been LOVELY- iPads at the ready for distraction and let her pick gas or IV access for going to sleep.
I hope all gets sorted but I think it’s the anaesthetist who’s unusual rather than your DD!

katmarie · 27/09/2019 14:13

My DS had surgery at 13 months old, and they gave him the gas before they put the cannula in, so he was asleep before they did anything that involved him needing to keep still. They also let me hold him and cuddle him while they gave him the gas, which made things easier, and one nurse was there just to blow bubbles and distract him, and help me put him down and leave the room, (I'm sure she was there for medical reasons too, after he was asleep) the whole team was fab. What your dd went through sounds horrendous in comparison. I'd be speaking to PALS to see if there is a better way to get this done. And I'd be asking that the anasthetist be encouraged to review their approach to scared kids.

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