VERY scared, VERY clueless (night terrors?), 100% desperate

[exhaustDAD]

Hi all. I am a dad of twin toddlers, I work hard, doing early shifts so I can get home to my kids, and after bedtime, I work on personal projects to boost our income. This all means very little sleep. But this is not about me - just trying to show how desperate I am.

My toddler boys are 4-year-old. And one of them developed this terrible night terror situation. We are guessing it's night terror, but I am just so confused. He wakes up around midnight, or 2 am, or 3, screaming and shouting, runs to our room, keeps shouting and crying for about an hour. There's not much we can do, other then making sure he's safe, or doesn't hurt himself. He doesn't tell us what's wrong, generally, but sometimes he blurts out things we can help. Like "I want Frankie" - his favourite teddy bear. But it's rare. Now, here comes why I am so confused, sad and desperate:

I was lead to believe night terrors involve shouting, crying, thrashing around, sleepwalking, but generally not aware of himself. But my son clearly is aware, he can dodge me opening my arms in case he wants comfort with 100% accuracy, can tell my wife and me apart, he never wants, actively shouts he doesn't want me or doesn't like me. If I go near him, or is forced to touch him (stop him from falling down the stairs) - he starts shouting louder, screeching, and trying to hit me, grab my hair, clearly to hurt me. He always just wants mummy, but is confused when he gets to her, every once in a while tries hitting her too. I am finding it very hard to deal with these in a good way, I grab his hand when he tries hitting his mother, I can't tolerate it. I try telling him to stop it, it's not nice, and we're here to help. Obviously, to no effect. I don't know what to do. My wife keeps telling me that she knows it hurts me, how adamantly he tries to express that he hates me, but she is convinced it's only the night terrors. Then why? He is looking at me, he is aware of his surroundings... I don't know what to do, I am so desperate and heartbroken...I hesitated to put this in "health", hoping there are some parenting tips we could use, but I'm scared it's some kind of condition we can't do anything about... We cant live like this. I sleep 3-4 hours as is, we work hard, he doesn't just wake us up but his brother too... I am begging you, if you have anything I can use - anything similar you experienced.. .Please..PLEASE SHARE. Especially the hitting part... :( I just don't know what to make of it...
Thank you, I appreciate it in advance.

forgot to add: we moved house recently, and he had the same issue in our old house. So it can't be environmental, I think...

God that must be hard. I hope someone with more knowledge and experience than me is on tonight

Not exactly the same but I didn't want to read an run (and a thread bump might help).

My DS went through a sleep walking phase at around the same age.

It was very disturbing at the time.

We used to wake up finding him running up and down the hallway or re-arranging his toys.

No terror or screaming but it was odd/frightening as he wasn't himself, a bit like a personality transplant in that he was quite rude and nasty when we gently tried to get him back to bed. Tbh he responded better to me than DH but neither of us was clear why that would be the case.

He couldn't remember anything the next day.

I'm sorry but I don't have any advice in so far as he stopped doing it after about 4 months (we spoke to the GP who was brilliant and reassuring but by the time we got passed the "wait and see" to looking at a specialist referral he'd stopped).

There was no obvious trigger for it happening nor for it stopping.

All I can suggest is that you don't let the hurt overwhelm you. I understand it's difficult but it's not about you.

Children go through phases and (now teen) DS has gone through periods where he's "closer" to me and then "closer" to DH.

Now as a teen he minimises interaction with either of us unless it's regarding food or money - again pretty normal.

I'd recommend seeing your GP as a first step and take it from there.

Oh one thing I remember was he did have a special soft toy.

I used to ask him to help me "tuck" the toy into bed because the toy was sleepy then say it was his turn to be "tucked" using the same expressions/language he used to put his toy to bed (on the basis that what he thought would comfort his toy in his sleepwalking state would comfort him).

Sorry OP. I understand you. My now 3 year old had something similar when he was 2. To me it looks like night terrors. My son will scream, he knew where he were but didn't respond to things like he would normally would. My advice, maybe for a couple of days rearrange sleep routine, make it as quite as possible, safe environment etc. I found that if during the day someone got angry at him or he was super upset for any reason he will have a worse night terror. I know it's hard, can you have him sleeping with you or in a different room? I found that he better responded if I left him calm down himself. If you try to grab him even for a hug sometimes they believe you are going to hurt them. I used to talk to him but he wouldn't respond but sometimes will calm down a bit. I use to play calm music and left him to it. It is painful, you are exhausted, but you just have to leave him to it and be there to watch he is safe and cuddles if he wants them. I believe they are just trying to cope with big feelings they can't manage yet. Good luck

First can I echo what DeRigueur said with bells on. I have a teen with minimised interaction as well as a 3 yo who has her moments when Dad is her chosen one or myself. Having the benefit of seeing this before with elder kids allows me to take it more in my stride. The night terror episodes will be making these things feel like big issues.

You didn't say how long it has went on. Hoping that it never happens again for you all. I have no real advice. Only here to offer support in saying it happened to us too. DD 2 had only a few nights of this and I've never experienced anything like that. We did just move house. It was me that could comfort her so had to stay up most of the night till she would finally doze off then she would wake again with a jump and startled. Just awful. I also scoured the net went to GP but really got nothing concrete. And thankfully it was a short period so nothing radical had to be done. (I was suggesting moving in case it was our ñew house ) I do think it was a developmental time for our dd. I remember during the days it had happened that she was acting frightened of shadows outside in the sunshine and I took time to try to show her how they happened and allay her fears !

As I said. No real strategies to offer other than support for you. And encouragement during an awful time. Try to leave your wife to deal with ds and you take your other son till you get through this.

And you will get through it.

Our little boy went through something very similar and so did my friends little girl.around age 4. In both cases the kids only wanted mum. Our DS would go rigid sometimes and the screaming was terrifying. The one thing that seemed to sooth both of them was a familiar sound. Weirdly at different stages for both of them it was putting on a familiar dvd of Thomas the tank. Later on the only thing that would bring our DS around was a video of a youtube he really liked. I would recommend having a dvd ready of whatever programme they like at the moment. I hope it settles for you soon. It really is worrying and exhausting.

Hello,

Sounds like night terrors. They are very disturbing to witness. So much of what you have written echoes word for word what my DM said about me, as I used to frequently experience them as a toddler.

She described it as though I was possessed. I made terrifying noises, panicked as though I was about to be hurt, wouldn't recognise her/my DF. 'Get away from me, you're not my mummy, help help please help' are some of the phrases I would repeat in a loop. Tried to run away. They built a tall gate at the top of the stairs (I would climb over the regular ones) as I would frequently sleepwalk too.

One thing that is important, no matter how hard it is, is not to try wake him/physically handle him (unless he is about to hurt himself) as that can disorient him further and take longer to settle.

My mum would calmly talk to me, telling me it was ok and to go back to sleep. And I would. I suppose playing relaxing music (by this perhaps start playing a song that he can listen to during some quiet time during the day so he gets used to it) could help too. I don't really remember these episodes, except for flashes of a strange perspective dream, where I was trapped in one corner of the room, could see the small rectangle of light which was the door in the other, but I couldn't get to it.

It is really scary to witness, my family all tell me. But developmentally, not something to really worry about just yet (there's lots and lots on the internet about it, so it happens to many children!) He could be reacting to something that is stressing him out, so try to build a calmer bedtime routine, make sure he gets enough rest/relaxing time during the day so he isn't overtired. If it happens around the same time each night, try gently waking him up 15/30 minutes before, to interrupt the sleep pattern.

Keep a diary over the next few weeks, and if it doesn't resolve, speak to your GP, as they can refer to a sleep specialist (although, there is no treatment as such for night terrors, most children grow out of it as their nervous system matures)

It's very scary. And exhausting. But honestly, it will resolve over time. Have a read online too to see if there are any further strategies that can help.

It’s a night terror, ie extreme nightmare, and although they seem awake they are not so cannot be blamed for their actions, especially as he’s a child. My son used to get them they are extremely distressing in case they hurt themselves. He grew out of them, nothing you can do accept make sure he is not hurt during a terror. We stopped him playing on screens, ie iPads, as I think there is a link with young children’s brain development and that certainly helped and they stopped altogether.

Definitely night terrors. I went through this with my son too. He seemed to want me to comfort him (‘please mum, please help!’) but then seemed scared of me when I was close to him. We managed to link it to being too hot, as it got worse in summer when it was warm or if he was ill with a slight fever. We kept him as cool as possible at night, to the point that he slept just in his pants for most of the year, and in summer when we suspected it might happen, we would run his wrists under the cold tap just before bed and it did reduce then slowly stop after this. His tended to be at around an hour after he went to bed so if he had a spare of a few in a row we would rouse him about half an hour after he went to sleep, just enough to wake him briefly then he’d drift back off, but enough to disrupt his sleep pattern which did sometimes avoid it. It is terrifying-you have my sympathies. I used to just repeat, ‘it’s just a dream...it’s ok, it’s just a dream ..’ and try to calm him. Sometimes trying to offer a drink/looking out of the window ‘for an aeroplane/the moon’ would snap him out of it quite nicely and he’d just go back to bed after that. Good luck and I hope they don’t last long for you!

One thing you can do is to keep track of what time they usually happen, then start waking him before they would start, and then settling him back to sleep again. It sort of resets their sleep clock and allows you to bypass the night terror.

I second what a previous poster said. Remove all screens for a while to limit excessive brain stimulation.
There is quite a fair bit on medical literature on night terrors. If you are not familiar wiht Pubmed, here is a link www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5941156/

Good luck. This is be very distressing

You poor thing. These are nothing more than night terrors. Please don't take them personally. He may seem perfectly "aware" but he's really not. You will get through this stage.

Everyone -thank you so much for all your commends and kind words. Knowing that he can outgrow this gives me some hope. All the advice you all gave me gave me a few ideas to try, i am especially thankful for them :)

Everyone who remind me that I shouldn't take this personally are right, i constantly need to remind myself, it is just very hard, because during the day he plays this game sometimes that he tells me he doesn't want me, and when I say ok, and stand up to walk away or do something else he quickly says - NO! I like you- i like you!. I know he does it for the effect, but i am not giving him a reaction so he stops doing it at one point ( can't wait). He is very much a mummy's boy out of the two,so i thought in the beginning that it was a natural dislike for me.. or an extension of it. In short: yes, i am always reminding myself..
My wife tells me he says things like " i miss my daddy" when i am not there, or cries every once in a while when he realises it's monday and I'm already gone, etc... but you know... it's still hard. Trying to be the best possible parent against all odds, these aggressive night terrors are definitely not needed...

My ds has had night terrors since about 1 year old and is 4 now and still occasionally gets them but not as frequently. In our case it is mostly caused by over tiredness (took us a long time to figure that out). Does your son still have a nap or go to sleep at a reasonable time etc? Try looking at his schedule and googling how much sleep a 4yr old needs. Another thing you could try is going into his room and rousing him gently and then resettling him not long before midnight as the night terror comes in certain parts of the sleep cycle and if you interrupt the cycle and he has to restart it you may bypass the terror altogether.

When they are in the midst of it all you can do is remain calm and gently restrain them to keep everyone safe, mostly offer cuddles and if your wife can get him safely up in her arms then walk him up and down like a baby whispering soothing or familiar songs in his ear. After years of practice with this my son settles quicker when I pace with him and repeat variations of the phrase "I know buddy, I know, mummy's here sweetheart" etc instead of songs but a lot respond to favourite songs or nursery rhymes.

Right, I still get night terrors and have 3 kids so here is my advice:

1. Stop taking the hitting and rejection personally. Your son is very young and distressed - night terrors are horrible and every after waking can feels really upsetting and terrifying.

1. Don't try to hold/stop him - he is distressed and will naturally push against/hit anyone who does that. Instead verbally reassure him - 'you are safe, it was a dream, it is finished now'.

1. Despite loving my husband 100%, I am often angry (not consciously) and blame him in the immediate aftermath of a night terror. It is the night terror, not personal in anyway.

1. Work on getting the time your son is awake for after the night terror down - the key is to help him feel safe which might mean putting on an extra night light, offering to sit at the end of his bed while he falls asleep, a drink of water etc.

1. Stop working so hard and get more sleep yourself! You sound emotional and done in.

Hope that helps. Most people grow out of night terrors so it will most likely be a phase.

@Nogodsnomasters: Thank you for your reply :) They don't nap anymore, left it last year. A few other people also suggested resetting the sleep cycle, which I will start doing, see if it works...
I tried talking calmly, singing songs, or even playing a song he likes, to no effect. Although it's more likely he could be comforted by my wife in this stage, it doesn't always work, he starts thrashing around so hard, and even starts trying to hit her, not just me. I am very hopeful this resetting method works :)

@MrsBobDylan - That is such valuable advice, thank you kindly. I can't imagine a more authentic source of information than someone who has this and is old enough to actually talk about it - unlike the little ones.
1 - I am always reminding myself not to take it personally, I am not being harsh to him, or tell him off, I take the hits, and it just hurts my feelings (I know, I know what that sounds like). The worst reaction I had to this was in the beginning, when we still did not know about the existence of night terrors, and I grabbed his arm, and in a very stern voice told him "don't you ever hit mummy, EVER! it's not nice!" But now I just whisper "I know...I know...shhh... it's a dream, I love you... it's a dream, you're safe" (even though it's not a dream per se)

2 - Unfortunately i have to stop him at one point, because he could easily fall down the stairs when he's running out of his room like this. He's always shouting for mummy, so I just direct him towards the room my wife is sleeping in (I am always up at this point, working, so I'm the quickest to know)

3 - Do you remember being actively angry at him? Do you have any reasons in the night terrors themselves? or is it just the anger without any context? This is what confused me - One morning I asked my son if he remembered what happened during the night, and he said he hit me. But I could never ever get more of him showing signs of remembering any of it.

4 - We have the lights on in the hall, and they have night lights... and after the night terror ends, he is sleeping in our bed. Even when the rare occasion happens when there's no night terror, he would come over and sleep in our bed. Same goes to my other son who doesn't have night terrors...

5 - Haha, very true. But can't stop yet. I just absolutely have to finish some projects...

Thank you so much for your input.

My son has exactly the same night terrors as you describe, word for word. He's 2. It's terrifying and we feel helpless but I've been assured that he will grow out of it. We're trying to get him to associate nighttime with lots of positive things and talk to him a lot during the the day about how safe he is here with us but other than that we haven't yet found anything that calms him.

Hi All

My son had these at age 4-5, he used to scream and scrabble around on his bed like a wild animal, seem to be awake but talk nonsense and make odd animalistic noises. Very scary. He couldn't remember it at all the next day.

I was very sceptical, but tried a friend's advice to take magnesium sulphate / epsom salt baths. You can buy from supermarket/chemist/health food shop.

One big fistful in the bath water. I expect at the time we did this daily.

I don't know if it was a coincidence, but they never happened again. I'm sorry but it was about 4 years ago and can't remember if they faded or just stopped.

Please try it, I cannot emphasise how sceptical I was - but we still put it in our baths every so often now.

@Char0187 I reckon it will mostly be time. Our boys will probably outgrow it. We just have to be as efficient in helping these situations as possible...

@raaaasss Hmmm...would this be connected to "iron deficiency" I hear people talk about with regards to night terrors?

Just made a quick google search - doesn't seem like it. Interesting.

I thought maybe something to do with magnesium and muscle cramps? Interesting that you mention iron, I remember a year or so later thinking he might be iron deficient and giving him supplements. Is it just this thread and other people I've spoken to - but it seems to be a male thing? Maybe some developmental/hormonal thing.

I usually hear/read about boys too - I think this thread is the first one that I personally see talk about a little girl, too (above)

My ds have all had night terrors. Whilst they have lessened the last one ds1 had was when he was 11. They vary between being completely irrational to saying they hate us, to nearly weeing on the television, to leaping around in the top bunk of the bed, to hallucinating.

My dh also has night disturbances as does my FIL. These involving shouting but also punching, kicking, shaking etc whoever is next to them.

With all of them I found that night terrors were linked to times of stress and being overtired but not exclusively so. With ds3 his were sometimes linked to needing a wee but not being awake enough to get up and go. With him sometimes a gentle 'do you need a wee' would help but not always. The problem is that whilst they do not wake up they are tired because of them.

We try and prevent them through good sleep habits (consistent bed time, no screens before bed, etc) but life is not always that simple.

If they do have one my main aim is to keep them safe then be reassuring but neutral. We then just ride it out.

Once we accepted that this is just another phase to get through it was easier.

@lorisparkle
Reading everyone's response - especially yours... I can't help but wonder if we cause this with our lifestyle? screen time...too many things going on...or tiredness as you said...not sure. I am trying to help the situation as much as I can...