Did i make the wrong decision, very upset, teeth removal

[beinspired]

My lovely dc is going through Orthodontic treatment at the moment. When she had her 1st appointment it was all about private or NHS. Her teeth are moderate crowding so the outcome was NHS.
She was put on a waiting list. The 2nd appointment was assessment of her teeth and a dental plan. They took an 3D xray and some photo's. On the plan it says dc is a class 1 on a mild class 2 skeleton with moderate crowding. She needed 4 teeth removed, 1st pre molars on the left and 2nd pre molars on the right.
I trusted the Orthodontist as even I could see the crowding of dc's teeth (dh had 4 teeth removed when he was young) most of my dc's friends have teeth removed for braces, so i thought it had to be done.
We had a dentist appointment quite soon, I did check with dentist if it was the right decision. She said, they are a very good orthodontist practice and if it was her child she would have teeth removed.
Anyway, went a long with it, dc was very brave and luckily it was done very quick.
Just a week later i found out that tooth extractions can have a real effect on faces when they grow older. Heard about 'sunken face', flat profile and all sorts of scary things. Heard that you can have straight teeth without removal of healthy teeth even when there is crowding.
I heard about twin blocks, expanders but we were never given any of those options, never even heard of them.
Now I have sleepless nights thinking I ruined my dc's face and that correction of a mild class 2 skeleton (slightly receding chin) should be done now whilst still growing.
I love my dc's face and i heard with current treatment, profile might get worse. BTW not telling any of this to my DC.
I just don't know what to do, i feel so stupid just trusting the orthodontist and only now hear about other options.
I did try to talk to orthodontist at 3rd appointment (fitting upper train tracks) but she wasn't really interested and of course i can't really tell her all my concerns with my child there. Next appointment in 6 weeks.
Anyone any suggestions? Maybe an orthodontist here who can reassure me? Is there anything i can do? Have a different treatment?
Thanks for reading!!

It's so hard isn't it. Two of my DCs are currently undergoing NHS orthodontic treatment and only one of them had to have teeth removed. I questioned what the treatment would be if we didn't go for the extraction and was told "Not to have braces fitted".

I felt awful for DS watching his teeth being pulled, he was so brave but it was a real job to get one of them out.

However, seeing their teeth start to straighten already and the impact it has had on their confidence to see their smile starting to straighten up, I have to trust that the orthodontist knew their stuff.

Please try not to worry about what may happen in the future. If there is an issue I'm sure dental implants etc will be more advanced by then and if they need extra teeth at the back to fill out their adult face then I'm sure they will be able to get them sorted. In the meantime straightening out their jaw and aligning the teeth properly will help them no end.

I had that done when I was younger. Seriously it looks fine. Teeth and face. Was just looking at the very tiny gaps left from it yesterday and thinking what a overcrowded mess there would have been if those teeth hadn't been taken out.

I would say you should contact London orthotics (I’ll google that and come back) they specialise in not pulling teeth for this reason. Unfortunately main stream dentistry is very old fashioned in this regard. I know you’ve had the teeth pulled but they may be able to advise from this point. Most people these days have had that mode of dentistry, it’s the way it is and I’m sure she’ll look fine. The Dentists are only doing what they know but the forefront of dentistry now knows different. Let me go off for a google and send you a link. I’m sure they do a £50 Skype session into.

I had it done 4 teeth out and then braces my teeth where a mess front ones stuck out a lot. I think I look ok ( hope so anyway ) and no ones ever said anything about it but I could post a pic of my mouth if it would help ? I don5 have any of before I had it done though as they are at my parents

www.orthodontichealth.co.uk/

Think it’s that one. I have a 7 yr old that I’ll be taking up there one day soon. A lot of money and time 🙄

I had teeth removed before my braces. I wore train tracks and a head harness for 4 years. (Harness only at home!) I'm now 37 and my teeth are still in place and I often get complimented on how nice my teeth are. No sunken face here, yet. You made the right decision at the time based on the information you were given.

Personally I had 4 teeth removed for my braces as a teen and nothing bad happened to my face,
However my teeth moved again and are still overcrowded. I had braces again recently and they moved them without removing any. It has caused me issues because my jaw/teeth alignment is all out of whack leading to teeth grinding, swollen jaw and a mucocele on my gum (damaged saliva gland) that I have to put up with or have surgery to remove.

Sometimes people just assume that’s how a face would have turned out anyway. A young family member of mine had train tracks and extractions for ages (about 4 years) he now has a very receded chin. When I read about all this stuff I looked back at some old pics of him - no receded chin and no one in they’re family has it. They have never heard of this so presume it’s just how his face would always end up and maybe it was, who knows? But now you have this info in your head would you benefit from such blissful ignorance? I’d phone that company if you can afford it. Put your mind at rest x

Beinspired I wouldn't worry too much now - it's done and plenty of people have had extractions.

I would say though to anyone else reading this for future reference that generally extractions are quite an old fashioned way of treating overcrowding - depending on the age the patient - and a good orthodontis will strive to avoid them unless absolutely necessary. And it is rarely absolutely necessary - depending on the age of the child.

Vinyls link above is I think to Mike Mew's practice. He is a specialist in orthotropics. orthotropics.com/

As I understand it, it basically is a theory that overcrowding is a western social issue caused by various issues - one of which is children failing to keep their mouth closed. If you have your mouth shut,your tongue (which is a massive powerful muscle) should sit against the roof of your mouth with the tip just behind your teeth on the flat of the gum. Everytime you swallow the muscle moves -- if a child is normally like this at rest, the mouth should develop properly around the toung width and be wide enough to accomodate all teeth.

modern orthodontics treats overcrowding more with palate expanders than extraction now provided the children are young enough.

Extraction of canines should be avoided particuarly especially on just one side - causes uneveness.

That is really interesting pink.... why would Western kids not keep their mouth closed? Is this as a toddler or when the adult teeth come in?

why would Western kids not keep their mouth closed? Is this as a toddler or when the adult teeth come in?

Lots of reasons I think NC4T

It's not just about keeping the mouth closed but about keeping the mouth closed in the right way. So dummies for example will impede this type of oral development because the tongue is not flat against the mouth.

Mew gives the example of seeing African tribal women holding young babies routinely gentle touch the chin to close if the mouth is open. I expect this may be a social issue to do with flies etc but apparently it is common practice. That means a baby is growing up from the start being trained to keep its mouth closed. That doesn't happen here.

I'm no expert NC4T - so this is just my lay person's understanding. It's all really interesting. If you have a young child, it's worth watching the orthotropics video and watching/reading Dr's Mews stuff.

He has a phrase to remember:

Lips together, teeth together, tongue on the roof of your mouth.

Is this as a toddler or when the adult teeth come in?

I think the key phase is between 4 years to 8 years but watch the videos - but applies up to adult teeth coming in.

It is to do with the growth of the jaw. There are plenty of people who can't actually get their tongue flat onto the roof of their mouth because they have a narrow buccal corridor. Think about it - why on earth wouldn't your tongue properly fit into your mouth?

Dr Mike Mew: Importance of tongue on roof of mouth

Explains effect of tongue position on malocclusions (bad/misaligned bite between the teeth)

I had it done but I do regret not leaving it until the wisdom teeth were coming in because by then I had to have a tooth removed for failed root canal treatment and I could have had the teeth with cavities removed and kept the healthy one.

I had a top front tooth which stuck out due to overcrowding. I had braces to straighten it when I was sixteen but the treatment failed. I paid privately as an adult and had two premolars removed, the treatment went really well and there are no gaps at all in my upper teeth.

I had 4 teeth removed as a child. Teeth look fine now, face isn't at all 'shrunken' and they are close together

Interesting about mouth being open leading to overcrowding theory. I have always found closing my mouth an uncomfortable resting position so usually the fly-catcher

I have always found closing my mouth an uncomfortable resting position so usually the fly-catcher

I think this is the issue Justlurking humans need to be trained into this being a natural resting position. If your tongue doesn't fit in your mouth, because your jaw developed too narrowly (because as a child you didn't keep your mouth closed) it is bound to be uncomfortable as an adult.

Thank you all, it really helps to read varies replies.
I read about Orthotropics a few days ago (should have done that before all this :-(

DC is too old for that kind of treatment as they want to start before the age of 9. Also with extractions done, it's not the right way forward. I did think of calling them for a 2nd opinion but reading a bit more about it and after watching a few You Tube videos, I'm not really sure I believe it. It promises a lot, but actual real scientific proof i can't find and also why is it still only done by this one Dr and his son for the last 30 years, not really been picked up by orthodontists. Costing somewhere between 3k and 9K, quite a lot.
Anyway, only saying this as there were quite a few comments here. It's not really for us now.
It is quite difficult for me to try and think, it's done now, move forward whilst DC is still growing and maybe there is still something they can do now. I don't know, find it all very stressful and can't stop feeling so guilty and stupid.

You don’t need to feel guilty and stupid! We can’t all know everything! What we know to be true constantly changes / adapts or leaps forward. Very few people know about this particular stuff. 99% of people you know who have had a brave will of had conventional treatment, you never considered they looked weird, sunken and flat before. Put it out of your mind x

@beinspired I hope you have found a way forwards for your daughter, but please do ask the practitioner about retractive and non-retractive orthodontics.

With regards to proof, there have been academic studies on this area for over 40 years. I am happy to supply you with some. You might find this website a good start www.preventcrookedteeth.com.

There is compelling evidence linking poor facial growth to a litany of health problems and Professor Christian Guilleminault has estimated that between 50% and 80% of children diagnosed with ADHD actually suffer from the side affected of obstructive sleep apnoea caused by restricted airways.