When to go to the GP with child’s (5yo) insomnia?

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DS is 5-and-a-half, and in Y1 at school. Since the beginning of Y1 (almost exactly to the day) he has been really “wired” at bedtime and doesn’t get to sleep until at least 9pm, often much later. Last night he was still getting out of bed when I was in bed (around 10.30) and DH kept taking him back and tucking him in.

He has ongoing, undiagnosed bowel and bladder problems - he’s been in the system at the local hospital for a while, but his issues aren’t typical so they’ve referred him to the regional Children’s Hospital for further tests. We’ll be attending our first appointment in a couple of weeks. Generally, he says he’s not in much pain, but the general consensus is that it’s been a chronic problem so he has probably gotten used to the pain/discomfort as he’s had it most of his life. It shouldn’t be a new factor.

His issues mean that he has both wetting and sometimes soiling incidents and sometimes has to change at school, which could be a source of anxiety, though outwardly he doesn’t seem bothered. He’s on a maintenance dose of Movicol to try and keep things moving, with semi-success. He’ll be seeing a counsellor through school to look after his emotional health until his health is resolved/ stabilised.

He shares a room with his younger brother (3) but we have just conducted an experiment where we put the littlest in our room (his toddler bed squeezes in, just about). If anything it made things worse. They are back sharing at the request of both boys.

We have a regular bedtime of 7ish (give or take 15 minutes). They have a bath most nights, but not every night. Sometimes DS1 will need a wash when he comes home from school if he’s had an accident, so then he won’t have another bath at bedtime.

They separately have three stories (or chapters) and DS2 quickly falls asleep on our bed and is moved into his own bed. Joint bedtimes are usually awful in a cute way. They are jolly and giggle and wind each other up and neither child gets to sleep.

After stories, DS1 then lies quietly, often asks us to stay, which we do for a while. Then we will leave (giving plenty of notice). If we try and go downstairs then he pops down to ask questions or say he’s scared etc. If we stay on the stairs he will lie quietly for an extraordinary amount of time and then when you think he must be asleep he will say “Mum, are you there?”.

We’ve tried audiobooks, which keep him in bed, but he’ll be awake for the whole thing. We’ve tried bedtime meditation audiobooks for kids, but again, he just listens to the whole thing and is still awake at the end.

We’ve tried incentives which don’t seem to work, however tantalising the prize. We’ve put sanctions in place for getting out of bed (access to tv is based on staying in bed after bedtime). He rarely watches tv these days as a result, which quite frankly is unhelpful for us as he needs more entertaining! 🙄

He’s so tired and his mood/ behaviour is really suffering. Today he slept in until 8.30 and I was debating with myself whether I was prepared to let him be late for school if he didn’t wake himself up. I went into his room and opened the blackout blind at about 8.15 and he was down 15 minutes later. I had everything lined up like a production line for him to get ready for school in 20 minutes. Luckily we are 2 minutes from school.

So, should I take him to see the GP? Can/will they prescribe anything? Melatonin? Or is that a last resort?

Oh, I forgot to say, just in case it’s relevant. He has asthma which is well-controlled with seretide inhaler morning and night. His seretide use predates the insomnia by about 10 months, so I don’t think it’s linked, but should mention it as a factor.

Depending where you are GP may not prescribe melatonin, in our area it is via pead only and even repeats the Gp can’t do.

Have you tried changing bedtime to later? We find if it is too early and he isn’t ready to go up it makes it take longer to fall asleep as he gets frustrated.

Is he the same at weekends?

My older DD was like this minus the health problems.

She's 13 now and is still having/needing less sleep than her peers but your son sounds overtired.

What's his diet like? Much processed food or squash?

Following as my 7 year old goes to sleep very late and has done forever really - but it just gets steadily later and later. At the moment he's very rarely asleep before 11pm. He's very good and tries his hardest to go to sleep, and we've done all the usual stuff, but he just can't do it. He has a story at 8, can play in his room for an hour (no screens obvs), into bed at 9, reads for an hour, lights off at 10, but we still feel awful that he has an hour lying on his own in the dark. It is quite an effort to drag him out of bed in the mornings but to be fair he doesn't seem too tired once he's up and about.

We just find it so frustrating! Plus we like to have a little bit of time to relax once both kids are asleep, which means we end up staying up until midnight every night, and I could do with more sleep myself.

I think he’s slightly better at weekends. Not starkly different. We make sure he gets 3 hours+ outside in fresh air on Saturday and Sunday which probably helps.

Over the holidays we tried some later bedtimes. We found he’ll fall asleep fairly quickly after about 10.30, but before that he lies awake. Until September he slept 7pm-6am. I’d happily make that 8pm-7am, but he really needs to be getting to sleep by 9 at the very latest. Even then it’s a massive rush in the morning if he sleeps until 8.

My DS has ASD and has a weighted duvet which has made the world of difference to him. He winds down and is usually asleep within 15 minutes. I wonder if you could borrow one from someone or somewhere? THey cost upwards og £100.

Cheapsausages his diet is good. As he has bowel issues his diet contains plenty of fresh fruit and veg. We cook from scratch more often than not. He rarely drinks squash. I give fresh juice diluted 1:3, milk or water when he’s not drinking endless Movicol! The Movicol does have sweetener in, if you’re thinking along those lines.

Ooh, redexpat a weighted duvet? That’s interesting. Does it get hot for your DS? Do you have a link for a good place to buy so I can do some research?

Can you give him a bedside light( aware other child is in room but if he's a good sleeper he hopefully will nod off) and allow him to read himself/ look at books for 10 mins -quietly-after you've finished reading to him,and show where that is on a clock. Then say you will put the light out then or if he's had enough he can put it out first. Either way you'll come back and give him a cuddle, kiss and tuck him in. He may respond to a bit of responsibility for,his own bedtime, perhaps worth a try.

So counting back from 8.15am for example how many hours sleep does he have on average per night? My 5 year old gets about 9 hours. If we send him to bed about 7pm he's up and downstairs until about 10pm. If he goes to bed at 9pm he stays there all night so you need to first work out if he gets enough sleep for him and then work out your course of action.

ArnoldBee he got about 9 hours last night. For his age NHS recommends 10.5/11. Added to the fact that I have to basically get him up & he complains that he’s tired in the day (but not at night) I feel like his pattern needs to shift earlier.

Withindsight they each have an ikea wall light above the head of their beds. We don’t stop him from using this or from reading, but it often leads to him coming downstairs to ask about difficult words etc, so I think it just defers his brain from winding down.

Have you tried removing the bulb for a week or so, to try and switch him off a bit earlier? Only other thing I can think is Vicks- when my dc have colds I put Vicks on their feet as well as chest and I swear when I put it on their soles they go straight to sleep like in a couple of minutes (not tried when they are well) it may be worth trying. How about a tiny bit of lavender oil on some cotton wool in the room, too much does stimulate

After an 11pm bedtime on Thursday, he went to bed at 9.30 last night and then got woken at 6am by his little bro. He's been hideous today and he's gone to bed and is asleep! Let's see if this is a one-off...

Sounds a bit like DS although most of the time he is asleep by 9pm, he wakes up at 6.30am or ealist 5.00am (We have trained him to stay in bed till 6.30am). He just doesn't seem to need as much sleep.

His bedtime is 7.30pm he can be asleep by 8pm if he's really tired, but that isn't every night. He's 7 year's old but he's been like this for some time. According to his new fitness tracker he got for Christmas he will sleep anywhere for 8 hours to 10 1/2 hours a night, 9 hours is more average.

I know you said it started after his use of seretide, but you do realize this is a combined steroid and slow release ventolin drug. It can make you feel a bit hyper, I asked a friend how it made her feel as when DS started taking it he was way to young to be able to explain very well how it effected him. He sleeps even worse if he's had to have more ventolin to and I can normally tell if he's had it at school even without asking him as it.makes him a bit hyper. I accept it as a side effect of keeping him healthy though. His asthma is generally well controlled unless he is ill.

Try letting him stay up a little latter and we play music at bedtime not stories as like found DS would just stay awake and liaison to them. He may be tired during the day form his asmtha to even when medicated I'm sure it still effects DS especially with all the medication he has to take.

PS. has he been allergy tested at all his stomach problems could be related to the asthma. DS always gets an upset stomach when his gets bad (consultant seem to dismiss this as unimportant). He was also very difficult to potty train not properly dry till 5 years. I'm sure it was all linked. His allergies are environmental so more difficult to avoid so he has to take antihistamine as well.

Thanks Mig I had wondered about the seretide. Doctor explicitly told me that it wouldn't affect sleep when I asked in relation to DS2 who wakes in the night and also has it.

He's had RAS tests and general blood checks for everything but at the beginning of the month so no results yet. He had a cow milk protein allergy as a tiny (breastfed & first time I gave him formula at 6 months he had bloody stools and stayed a night in hospital to rule out intussuception (sp?)). He was supposedly successfully introduced to milk at about 18 months but I'm not so sure!