had a letter to say dd is overweight

[steppemum]

dd1 is year 6. They were weighed in November and she has come back as overweight. I know she isn't skinny, but I was surprised when I put her details into the NHS site, that she is at the upper end of over weight.

She is dc2, and dc1 and 3 are both at the lower end of weight scale. Ds at times was underweight.
They all eat the same, we eat a home made middle of the road diet, plenty of fruit and veg. No fizzy drinks, only 1 juice allowed per day. No fancy sweet puddings during the week (we have nice pudding on sat/sun)

She does football once a week, and walks to and from school. In the warmer weather she is often out on her bike, playing outside, but it has been raining since september and wet, muddy and miserable.

I am at a bit of a loss as to know what to do. I can't get out and about with her 3 days a week as I am working, and it is dark when we get home. The week is pretty busy as it is, and she does a lot, but it isn't sports clubs (she plays in a brass band, does newspaper club at school, and scouts)

There is a part of me that is a bit philosophical, because in sept, when she goes to secondary, she will do a 10 minute cycle, train ride and then a 15 minute walk every morning, then reversed in the evening, and she will be doing plenty.

She has done the thing where she gets fatter, and then has a growth spurt and get thinner. But she is never really thin like the other two are.

the calcium thing - I know there are many other sources, but if you look at what is being recommended on here, cut out the yoghurts (too sugary) cut down the cheese and immediately you have cut 2 of her sources of calcium. Nuts contain calcium, but also a lot of calories. So I need to find a balance.

We don't eat kids yoghurts, these are adult standard, not fancy yoghurts. I didn't think they were so bad, I thought it was the kids fromage frais stuff that was so full of sugar.

The other thing about the school dinners. Whether or not it is a hot dinner is a red herring. If she is getting a small portion of school dinner (and the portions are quite small for the year 6 kids) it is probably the same calories as a packed lunch.
The dinners are OK, not brilliant, but OK, and I know that they are very tightly controlled as to the amount of sugar and fat, and they use a lot of tricks, eg bulking things out with veg, in order to comply with the guidelines (I am a governor, and we had a look at them last term, so I know what is in them)

She gets FSM, and no, I am not about to start making packed lunches. They all eat a smaller dinner (portion size) during the week, because I know they have eaten at lunch time.

Aarg. I need to find alternatives to lots of things.

Ask your GP for help, our surgery has a dietician in weekly...

Not to be dismissive of this OP, but just from an anecdotal POV, my 13 y old cousin was quite overweight pre puberty and it all dropped off once she changed shape. It's not uncommon.

I really wouldn't over-think the diet too much, it sounds like you are doing things sensibly.

I sometimes have houmous on wholemeal toast for breakfast, any chance your DD might go for that? Or avocado or tomato on toast? Or cottage cheese instead of cheddar?

I have to say I think porridge without sugar is vile, I wouldn't eat it without no matter how much banana it had in it A bit of brown sugar isn't going to hurt if you have cut down sugar elsewhere by axing biscuits/cake.

If your kids really love their cakes and you have the time and inclination, you can easily make healthier muffins using wholemeal flour, added bran, kidney beans make great brownies....

here is an example from the GI diet cookbook

carrot muffins
4oz wholemeal flour
1oz wheat bran
2oz ground flaxseeds or linseeds
4 tbsp sugar or natural sugar substitute (eg stevia, but check sweetness)
2tsp cinnamon
1 tsp ground ginger
1/2 tsp bicarb of soda
1/4 tsp salt
2 eggs
9fl oz buttermilk (if you can't buy it you can make your own by adding 1tbsp lemon juice to 9fl oz semi skimmed milk and etting it stand for 10 mins)
4tbsp veg oil
1 tsp vanilla extract
1 large carrot, finely grated
3oz raisins. sodtened in hot water for 10 mins and drained
1 1/2 oz pecans, chopped

oven 190 degrees or gas 5. Line or grease a 12 hole muffin tin.
Combine flour, bran, seeds, sugar, cinammon, ginger, bicarb, baking powder and salt.
In a small bowl, whisk together the eggs, buttermilk, oil and vanilla. Stir in the carrots, raisins and pecans. Add to the flour mixture and stir just until combined.
Spoon into tins and bake 20-25 mins or until a knife inserted comes out clean.

I'd give less fruit and up the veg instead. How about carrot sticks after school or chunks of cucumber and tomato?

gleam - it had occurred to me that if I up the fruit it is another high sugar food if I'm not careful.

Fortunately they all love carrot/pepper/cucumber sticks

Also fruit juice - we drink it on holiday if we stay in a hotel, but not otherwise.

I was shocked when I looked at how many calories a small juice has. Plus, the dentist is really not keen on the whole acid/sugar combo!

When we didn't eat till 6 and DGD came home from school starving, I used to make homemade veg soup, a large cup of that when she came in filled her till dinner time.

Part of the issue about girls being overweight is that it can lead to early puberty and therefore restrict their final adult height (they end up shorter than they would otherwise have been).

Overnutrition is one of the reasons the average age of puberty is reducing in many in developed countries.

Overnutrition also can manifest as increased height in childhood so overweight children can be taller than their peers, although may end up shorter as adults due to early puberty.

It's complicated and one of the reasons why just looking isn't necessarily a good indication of healthy weight for age.

sleepy - she is pretty much at the same stage of puberty that I was. I remember that in the last year at primary I had started getting some hair, both pits and pubes, and by the end of year 6 was wearing a bra.
My periods started in year 8, which is 13.
I would say that is pretty standard and that is where she is.
I know that overall, over the nation puberty is getting younger, but it is hard to link individuals and overall trends.

My brother is 6'5"
My other brother and my dad are 6'3" (and my dad was a wartime baby,so no over nutrition there)
My mum is 5'8"
I am 5'9" dh is 6'.

Our kids were always going to be tall.
ds is just 13, has always been skinny as a rake, has size 12 feet and wears age 16 clothes or a mens small/medium.

She is tall, because she comes from a tall family.

I do get the 'you can't tell by looking' thing, and I know that our view of weight is skewed by the number of overweight people we see.

Sorry steppemum I should have been clear that I wasn't actually referring specifically to your dd with my comments (as you rightly say, these are population trends so not true in every case), but more generally.

The comments about "puppy fat" before puberty, children being tall so overweight being less of an issue always seem to crop up on these threads as a way of explaining away the findings of weight screening. Height, weight and puberty can be linked (as you know).

no problem sleepyhead.

I think it's easy to make lots of healthy choices that add up to an unhealthy combination. Might it be worth settling down (alone, not with her) and putting what she's eating into something like Myfitnesspal? Then you can see where the calories are coming from, and identify what isn't worth it or isn't working. For me, there are too many calories in fruit juice for it to be worthwhile, but a teaspoon of sugar on porridge is definitely worth it. Bready/cakey snacks can be a huge source of calories that can be replaced with something filling like popcorn that has a similar effect. The actual number of calories is way more important than whether bread is wholemeal or there's a bit less sugar.

If you want to increase exercise but can't do any more clubs, how about a fun dvd? Something like Zumba? Do they make a gentle one for kids? You could do it together, not as a serious thing, just to have fun.

OK-
she doesn't like humus, dd2 guzzles it, dd1 won't touch it.
She wouldn't touch oatcakes either.
She hates breakfast. So it is a struggle to get her to eat at breakfast anyway. Egg on toast is probably the only option so far that she will eat at breakfast time (much less fussy the rest of the day) - apart from eggy bread or pancakes, but then she will want syrup on them.

She isn't a meat eater. We were all talking over Christmas, and ds is the meat eater, dd1 said she like the carbs part best, potato, pasta, rice. She eats the meat and veg she is given, but by choice she would fill her plate with carbs, so it is always a challenge to find things for her to pick at.

She doesn't like oranges, but will eat all the other veg/fruit mentioned.
But I can't buy berries at this time of year. Too expensive. In the summer they can pick them from the garden!
She LOVES gherkins!

I can just see her having pickled gherkins and a boiled egg for breakfast!

We do green veg at every meal already, they all have to eat the veg, can leave anything else if they are full, and they do eat all the ones you mentioned, and a few more.

They are allowed one glass of juice, because it counted towards 5 a day. It will be a struggle to knock that out completely. Especially for ds, he isn't getting his 5 a day.

What about frozen berries? Much cheaper.

Rice cakes to snack on instead of oat cakes?

I think you are absolutely right to be taking this seriously and to tackle it at this stage
Completely agree.

My weight was totally out of control as a child and whilst I lost weight once I finished puberty, I suspect that my pcos might be related to my childhood weight.

Would your DS have vegetable juice?

Has she already been through puberty? Those measurements are normal and healthy for an adult.

BMI 22.5. But she is at top end of both weight and height (about 95% and 90%) but obviously I do not have an exact age. The age corrected BMI chart is for children of average height or weight for that age. If you slide along a bit to the right (because she is tall) then she is not overweight. But the correct way to do it for children above 75th centile is to plot her centile for her age for height against centile for her age for weight (hope that makes sense). You can do it yourself, on bottom right corner of first page of RCPCH Charts. On that basis she is on 80th centile of BMI based on age specific centiles for height and weight. So above average but NOT overweight. Plus one for the standard MN Mark 1 eyeball!

In relation to amount of food do remember that in sedentary occupation 60% of calorie intake is to keep warm, so if you have a fat layer you actually need less food than someone of the same weight who does not have a fat layer. May explain the differences between siblings at the dinner table.

Juice is sugar water, essentially. Without the fibre, all the fruit sugar hits the bloodstream as quickly as a fizzy drink.

It looks like you are on the right track; I would focus on removing all added sugars from your cupboards - you'll be amazed at how much sugar is in savoury items! A child should only have 15g of added sugar a day. There is 14g of added sugar in a 35g serving of cheerios, for example.... Sugar is everywhere!

My children love peanut butter on rice cakes, or with an apple. Popcorn is a fun snack as a pp mentioned. Perhaps researching different cultures' foods and getting ideas for snacks that way?

draftsea that is very interesting.

I am glad to find a chart that allows for height! She is half way between 75th and 91st for height and half way between 91st and 98th for weight.

So yes, she is borderline rather than overweight according to that BMI chart, which is reassuring, but we still need to make some changes.

Interestingly we measured everyone's height this evening, and she is already 2 cms taller than in Nov. So maybe a growth spur is on the cards. I will weigh them tomorrow.

she is going through puberty, not out the other side by a long way!

Hi steppemum - Have you ever seen a physio/OT about your DD's hypermobility? I was advised by paediatric orthopaedic consultant that some children with hypermobility are at risk of becoming overweight because of not using muscles efficiently, having to work extra hard to control joints so tire more easily, problems with co-ordination and also just sheer discomfort, even pain sometimes.

Also, if she does have hypermobile knees, she could potentially be more prone to injury so really worth getting advice before embarking on any high-impact activities, esp as puberty can potentially be problematic for some with hypermobile joints.

My DD2 (9) has hypermobile knees (elbows and fingers too), poor upper body & core strength and tendency to put on weight esp around the tummy. Her knees are not actually that hypermobile, but running/jumping - even walking really - have always been problematic for her. She probably never got/gets the kind aerobic exercise that other children do just by running around and many childhood activities like riding a bike, climbing, handstands are difficult or impossible for her, although she always tries. Also now has low self-esteem around her lack of sporting ability which doesn't help.

Swimming has been brilliant for DD2 and physios always recommend as is easy on the joints. Also, just increasing overall activity is beneficial - for DD2, an OT recommended that everyday household tasks like hoovering, dusting, window cleaning, carrying shopping, pushing trolleys, wheelbarrows etc would help build her core and upper body strength (also improve proprioception) - so free and helpful! DD2 has also benefitted from (free) sessions run by a TA before school for children w. mobility/co-ordination issues, dyspraxia, dyslexia etc - sort of like pilates for children - does your school run anything similar? Oh, also a 'peanut' ball and wobble board have motivated her to do her exercises at home, well sometimes...

The Hypermobility Syndrome Association has a useful leaflet on exercise iirc. Also lots of people with experience of hypermobility on 'Special Needs Children' thread on MN.

We have good reason to be extra careful in our house re attitudes to food so really get where you're coming from on this. Your 'whole family fitness' approach sounds brill and YY to making changes discretely and not making her feel bad about food or herself at this vulnerable age. Good luck to you & yr DD .