Lactobacillus: no growth in stool sample despite lots of supplements given

[anotherdayanothersquabble]

Any ideas why the lactobacillus I am putting in, is not colonising?

I was suppose ting with 8bn bacteria for three months before the sample was taken, stopped 2 weeks before to test colonisation. Have been taking probiotics on and off for 8 years. Biocare, Biocult and Hyperbiotics.

It was a private stool sample, analysed by Genova Diagnostics. There was colonisations of Haemolytic Escherichia coli, Baccillus species and gamma haemolytic Streptococcus which we will start to treat.

Could these additional bacteria be preventing the growth of the lactobacillus? Any other thoughts as to why they are not sticking?

In 25% of the population Lactobacillus cannot be cultivated from faecal samples. It prefers the mouth and stomach.

The other bacteria you mention are all normal commensals so you would expect to find them there. They are also all normal commensals of the vaginal flora.

Thanks for your responses, could I then test for presence of Lactobaccilus using a different method?

And could the 'normally expected to be there' bacteria result in poor gut function if they are there in high quantities, I think it was the quantity that was concerning.

Could you be overthinking this?

You shouldn't be "treating" your commensal flora!!

Is this you or a child?

How much are you paying for this test?
Agree that all the bacteria you listed are normal commensals.

why are you testing it anyway?

It's an approach recommended by our immunologist to tackle allergies and frequent bacterial infections. My son reacts very badly to the medication he needs if he has a serious reaction / infection.

By addressing the gut flora we hope to decrease the number and severity of his reactions. We have already have had some success.

I left the latest consultation with lots of information and have another appointment booked in two weeks, but as with anything, there were questions I didn't think of until I left the room. He is not the best at responding to emailed queries.

I had Candida Albicans to the degree that my abdomen was very swollen. I looked as though I was 6 months pregnant.

The conventional treatment is antibiotics, which I declined.

I was treated by a herbalist who gave me mixtures to kill off the over active candida, I followed a sugar and yeast free diet at the same time.

It worked, but I do have food sensitivities still and have a restricted diet.

I'll probably get shot down in flames, but it may be something for you to consider.

Just for the record, I did no post anything nasty, just something totally wrong intended for another thread…. . MNHQ kindly removed it for me.

Treatment for candida is NOT antibiotic - they can make fungal infections worse - again just for the record.

another, write all your questions down as they occur to you.
Have a dedicated diary/notepad for just that purpose and then write answers down too.
I have no idea why lactobacilli wouldn't 'take' - could it be that they are just not counted/recorded by microbiology as they are considered normal gut flora?? Disclaimer: no expert.

As paxtecum hints, sugar is a problem for lactobacillus. It's a very sensitive organism and excess acidity kills it. How its supposed to survive stomach acid I don't know, but those lactobacillus drinks full of sugar are a total con.

I've just had a look at their website Pacific, they are doing this with PCR not culture, and claim to be able to detect Lactobacillus. I have to wonder what sort of validation the test has been through though.

Thanks. So there is high acidity so we are focussing on alkaline food and excluding sugar. They did specifically look for lactobacilli so it was not 'ignored'. Good advice about writing down the quesitons...

Ah, ok, PCR is good (I never though of looking at the website ) and no sugar should help too.
I hope you get to the bottom of it, another.

I assume that other immune deficiencies have been ruled out? Like IgA deficiency and similar.
Again, disclaimer: not an expert.

I'm not sure what doctor you visited paxtecum that recommended antibiotics for treating candida albicans

It not being detected doesn't necessarily mean it's not there.

"The conventional treatment is antibiotics, which I declined"

No it isn't.

No small badger, but f they are looking for it...

There are many factors that can influence the levels of commensal bacteria present in the gut, i.e. diet, antibiotics, environment etc. It has been shown that lowered levels of commensal bacteria can have a negative effect on the immune system, but there is a lot more to it than simply taking prebiotics. Increased hygiene practices, such as use of antibacterial cleaners, etc. are all contributors, as is exposure to animals.

Antibiotics to treat a fungal infection? WTF is wrong with people? This is why antibiotics are becoming less effective! paxtecum I bet your "herbalist" was laughing all the way to the bank!

Fuckella: I am very interested in the other factors you mention.

We don't use any antibacterial cleaning products. Use of antibiotics is a concern for one son due to repeated infections, not for my yoingest though. What are the other factors we should be looking at?
Thanks for your input.

If you google the "hygiene hypothesis" or "old friends hypothesis", you should find some interesting information, there is quite a lot out there on the relationship between commensals and the immune system. There's also a book that has been recommended to me (haven't read it yet though!) called "An epidemic of absence" which may be worth a look.

Fuckalella, that's fascinating - thank you for posting.
I had never heard of it being referred to as "Old Friends Hypothesis" but it's v apt.