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Children's health

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A day in the life... possible ASD / Aspergers

25 replies

joshsdad06 · 24/01/2015 23:45

This is a day in the life of J, from the perspective of us, his parents. I have inserted ‘(Good)’ into the title as I have chosen not to include one of what we term as his ‘episodes’.
I have tried to be factual, and avoided describing our feelings or moods, although you may surmise we try to maintain as calm and level as we can, especially during moments we judge Js’ anxiety levels to be high.

A (Good) Day in the Life of J
Having woken at 3am to go to the loo, J then goes into Mummys’ room instead of returning to his own. He asks Mummy if he can get into her bed. Mummy, without waking up properly mumbles a reply so he climbs in. From now until 6.30, he will ask her a question as often as every half hour. Questions such as “Who is taking me to school this morning?” or “What are we doing today?”. At around 6.30-7 Mummy will tell him he can go downstairs for some breakfast.
His favourite breakfast, rice crispies are always in the cupboard. However he may decide he’s not hungry and refuse to have them. He used to eat a bowl of porridge, 2 slices of toast followed by fruit such as grapes or strawberries and a yoghurt but he hasn’t done this since summer 2014. So today he is offered toast and strawberry jam (an old favourite), and eventually, after much cajaoling, he eats ¾ of a slice, while repeating the words “not hungry” over and over.
Then it is time to get dressed. But today his response is “no, don’t want to”. He has to be corralled into doing it, sometimes a ‘race’ is suggested: “who is dressed first?”. It’s a good day, he has gone along with the game.
He is then asked to go upstairs to brush both his teeth and hair. He Ignores this request, choosing instead to continue playing with lego on the living-room floor. At 5 or 10 minute intervals this request is repeated by Dad as well as Mum. 20mins later Dad calls again for him to do these things to which his reponse is to scream “I am, I am, I am !” as he stands to go upstairs. Its’ a good day as he has decided to go up and do them.
As with many little boys he will often lie about having cleaned his teeth or spend only a few seconds doing them.
As time to leave for school approaches, he becomes steadily more manic, making jokes and giggling rather than getting ready. It’s cold outside so when asked to put his coat on an argument ensues with him insisting he doesn’t need it/ its’ uncomfortable/ he doesn’t want to. Today is a good day as he does at least agree to take it and picks it up. Mindful of his asthma, and with time running short, Mummy physically puts his arms in it, at which point he becomes sullen. This quickly escalates to him shouting “You hate me, you hate me, you hate me”. By now it is out of the question that he will put his own shoes on, so Daddy sits him down on the stairs and puts them on for him while he kicks his feet up and down to make it more difficult. His jumper (he only has a t-shirt under the coat) is put into his bookbag so he does at least have it with him.
Mummy says “O J, come on, you need it on, we must go now”, and she guides him by the hand out to the car. Daddy is standing nearby so he reluctantly allows her to lead him, if Daddy was not he would otherwise have run away.
In the car, for the 5minute or so duration of the drive to school he asks for reasons why he couldn’t walk or cycle there; “There wasn’t time and I’m going straight on to work”. “But why couldn’t you walk back for the car then go to work?”, “There isn’t enough time J, I’m already starting late”, “But we could go in earlier then?” and so on. No answer is satisfactory. He is kicking his legs up and down the whole way.

Mummy arrives at an after school crèche (he attends 3days each week). He runs and hides when he sees Mum arrive, and requires several minutes of gentle persuasion to go with her. Today is another day where he has decided he won’t get in the car. He runs around and around the dark car park until eventually he calms a little and gets into the car. Mummy says “What was your favourite thing you did today?”. “I can’t remember”. “Ok, what’s the best thing about today you DO remember?”. “Oh Mum you are stressing me out”. His tone is condescending, “Can we go to McDonalds?”, he knows the answer will be no as he has rarely / never been there from Kids Club. So when he gets the inevitable “no, sorry, there’s a nice dinner at home” he can then moan and complain.
Once home he will normally be allowed his school-day allowance of 30mins on his tablet which seems to calm him. Mum keeps him informed of how much time he has “15mins left J”,”5mins J”. Its’ a good day so he turns it off when asked without complaint.
Dinner this evening is sausages with mash and sweetcorn. All favourites of his. He eats half before starting to complain and eat slowly, picking at it. On a good day like today, Mum offers his favourite yoghurt IF he finishes his sweetcorn and it works, he clears his plate under protest asd he is full. Once he has eaten the yoghurt he asks for another.
Upon learning it is nearly bedtime he is suddenly hungry. He is allowed a cereal bar and glass of milk while in bed. He doesn’t want to put pyjamas on, Daddy says he’ll race as he is putting his on too which works on a good day such as this.
He becomes manic, joking and running around rather than cleaning his teeth and getting into bed. Dad explains this isn’t appropriate behaviour for bedtime and he should be calm/ needs to chill out etc.
Its’ Mummys’ turn to read his story for anything up to half an hr (Alice in Wonderland tonight), throughout which he fidgets and plays with the soft toys on his bed, rarely looking at Mum. He interjects with questions and giggling, Mum only pauses to take a deep breath and carry on. He knows any discussion is after she has finished reading and is kept brief by her, else he will be talking for hours.
Mummy then sits in her room with both bedroom doors open, perhaps working on her laptop or doing ‘brain training’ on her Nintendo DS. He gets up to the loo 3 times, before settling to sleep an hour since bedtime story finished. On other nights he will go to the loo 6 or 7 times and to sleep 2 hours after bedtime story. But not today, because today was a good day, in the life of J.

Written by M, J’s Dad, approved by A, J’s Mum.

OP posts:
IsItMeOr · 24/01/2015 23:54

Hi, I read about J's day. What's your question?

If it's whether it's possible that J has ASD/Asperger's, you might get a better response on the special needs threads.

joshsdad06 · 25/01/2015 00:04

Just wanted to share and invite views. I'll look for those threads and repost thank you

OP posts:
fanjobiscuits · 25/01/2015 00:11

How old is he? Sorry if I missed that in the thread.

Medoc · 25/01/2015 09:00

Seems like a typical child. If you have concerns go for assessment.
btw- its pretty odd not to allow a child to ask questions during their story. How else are they to understand? Alice is a v odd book with lots of archaic language, so unless you're explaining / translating all the way through How on earth can a child get it?

IsItMeOr · 25/01/2015 09:33

Okay.

Well, you've missed out age, which is very important in understanding behaviour.

What do school say? (although behaviour at home and school can vary a lot).

fairgame · 25/01/2015 09:38

Dependent on age, it could be behaviour of a typical child, I say this as a parent of a child with ASD.
Are there any reward charts in place or any consequences for not following instructions?
I wouldn't race to get pj's on at night if you want calm because that will get any child giddy.
What is he like at school? What he is like with other children?

Bananaapplegrape · 25/01/2015 09:40

My child is ASD and I also work with children with complex needs.. Tbh all I get from the thread is a (sometimes) typical day in a child.. Pushing boundaries is normal, messing around is normal.. Without bigger details tbh (and even with them) it's impossible to really form any opinion.. If J is 16 then yes it does appear to be additional needs.. If he's 4? Could be a completely normal day

Bananaapplegrape · 25/01/2015 09:40

Fair game.. I cross posted but basically - what you said Grin

Moresproutsplease · 25/01/2015 09:42

How does he behave if you are firmer with him?

He does sound like a typical little boy and I know my son wouldn't have responded well to 'gentle persuasion' or making a game of getting ready, he needed firmness and strong boundaries or he would have run rings around me!

They are exhausting but if you have concerns speak to the school as a first step.

Bananaapplegrape · 25/01/2015 09:42

The lego bit confused me.. You repeatedly told him to get ready for 20 minutes? Why didn't you stop him and tell him to move it? Even with a child with ASD boundaries are probably even more important)... It sounds like he's used to ignoring you tbh

Moresproutsplease · 25/01/2015 09:49

Does he often get a chance to let off steam, swimming, football, running around the park? These are all essentials for calming kids down (and giving them an appetite).

Stuffofawesome · 25/01/2015 09:53

Some of his reactions sound Sensory processing related. It may be textures of food he that bother him. Same with the clothing. No point pushing on these things

Chavaloy · 25/01/2015 09:58

Difficult to comment without knowing his age...

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 25/01/2015 10:05

One thing leaps out at me.

If you are worried ask for assessment.

Re food. If he isn't hungry at breakfast..many people aren't. .I wouldn't make a big deal about making him eat

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 25/01/2015 10:08

I also wouldn't make him clear his whole plate either.

Have always made a thing of being relaxed about food. It has worked as DD eats a very varied diet for a child with autism.

Not saying J has it but principle is same. Making meals into a battle where you cajole and coax a child to eat more than they want is never good idea.

insanityscratching · 25/01/2015 10:10

As mum to two with autism and three without I'd identify J's behaviour more with my NT children than with my ASD children tbh. If you have concerns though ask for a referral to a community paed.
I wonder if it might be worth you reading " How to talk so kids will listen?" as there seems to be a lot of coaxing and not much telling and sometimes this makes children anxious as their boundaries aren't fixed.
I can tell you that none of my dc could ever remember or want to tell me anything about school so that doesn't surprise me. I've never worried about food and have always taken the stance that any child offered three meals a day won't starve themselves,maybe try it and remove the anxiety and attention from what J eats.
Having experienced the extreme parenting that comes from ASD I'd say J's good day is a hundred times better than ds's best ever day at around ages 5 to 8 tbh

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 25/01/2015 10:12

Yes. If he is young I also don't see any red flags

IsItMeOr · 25/01/2015 10:26

I agree with fanjo re asking for assessment if you're worried. You can ask the GP for this.

DS also eats a pretty varied diet for a child his age and/or with autism, and we have tried to take the same relaxed approach as you. But some days - e.g. when he's just been back at school for a week or so after holidays - he just wants his old familiar favourites. Other times he will be asking us to try new things he's heard about (Taco Tuesday anyone?).

OP - you will do no harm by trying some of the things that help kids with autism.

DS was helped from the age of around 2 by one of those star/sun clocks. We reinforced it with a very simple, time to be in bed asleep/resting/quiet and gentle return to bed when he got out.

Timers help us too. Timer for tooth brushing. Timer for setting challenges (e.g. can you get dressed in 4 minutes). Timer for screen time.

Visual aids. Break the morning and bedtime routines into stages and put them on a chart, preferably one where you can remove each item once it is complete.

It may just be your writing style, but I wasn't getting a sense of much fun/joy for any of you. Also, some of the parenting style (e.g. questioning about the day, telling DS bedtime routine "should" be calming him down, no questions during story) seems overly intense.

Unless he's a lot older than my almost 6 year old DS, I'd be ditching Alice for something a lot less complicated.

Things that helped us pre-diagnosis were Playful Parenting, Lovebombing, How to Talk So Kids Listen And Listen So Kids Talk.

IsItMeOr · 25/01/2015 10:32

Oops, took so long to write that I cross-posted with insanity. Glad to see we agree!

It doesn't sound like an especially good day for almost 6yo DS with autism (asperger's type but with some demand avoidance tendencies), although we would not manage the day the way you have described, so it is a little hard to tell. On a good day (DS relaxed, us relaxed and doing the routines/parenting styles that work well for DS), we will all have a lovely time. ASD is a very broad spectrum.

joshsdad06 · 27/01/2015 20:56

Sorry I've not had time to reply, Monday was a bad day. 2 episodes, one involved running away rather than go to school, the other him screaming, swearing profusely, shouting things like "you hate me, you hate me" repeatedly.

To all those who have mentioned a 'lack of boundaries', his Mum has two grown up children (as well as childcare experience in nursing) who I helped to bring up. They were 4 and 9 when her and I got together and we were together 11yrs. They are now both in their twenties and are well-adjusted, 'normal' adults, in whoms' upbringing I am proud to have played a key role.
So I am well aware of the importance of boundaries, and in fact my style of parenting tends to be one of strong disciplines or 'strict''. I have had to adjust as this style simply does not work for J.
J has just turned 8 years old. He has a very advanced vocabulary and holds conversations with adults, asking intelligent questions and adding his own information if it is a subject he knows about. In fact he mixes better with older children than those his own age, as his peers sometimes regard him as odd partly perhaps due to his use of words they don't understand. Unfortunately at school he gravitates towards a child in his class who is diagnosed ADHD and they bounce off each other, often getting into trouble.

We moved him last summer to his current school as we felt his needs were not being met. We have subsequently learned that his old school (3 adults) routinely lifted him and removed him from the classroom by his wrists and ankles before dropping him once they taken him elsewhere. The assistant senco and school counsellor were also heard to shout at him loudly enough ("you don't scare us") to make a teacher in an adjacent classroom jump.

He has been under camhs for the last year and a half, and unfortunately our experience of camhs has echoed some of the less favourable forum posts. They diagnosed 'insecure attachment'. His behaviour and tantrums have worsened during this time. Our instincts are also telling us camhs aren't helping. They have been unreliable (3 times we have arrived with Josh to find his counsellor 'on leave' or the appointment not made including one rare appointment (we had 2 during this time) at which the consultant child phsychiatrist was attending when we were told, in writing to be there at 3pm but the meeting had taken place at 2pm. When his appointments were on a Friday afternoon, his counsellor was 'on sick leave' on at least 6 occasions.

At school his tantrums include hiding under tables, chair tipping, tearing other pupils work from the walls, using very bad language and generally running amok. These have been brought under control recently with his being allowed to run to the loos to calm himself before explaining to an adult (usually the TA who has been allowed to spend a lot of time supporting J).

We saw his gp last week and she has refered him for full CDC assessment.
When I detailed some of his 'symptoms' the gp said "it sounds like there may be some aspergers there"

OP posts:
joshsdad06 · 27/01/2015 21:05

In terms of activities, currently he swims on a Friday and goes to cubs on a Thursday. My Mum picks him up from school and usually takes the dogs out with him on a Tuesday after school.

OP posts:
IsItMeOr · 27/01/2015 21:11

Hello again OP.

It's seeming like you want to off-load rather than get advice? Which is absolutely, 100% fine and understandable. I just wanted to check.

joshsdad06 · 27/01/2015 21:18

I know the day may sound grim, but inbetween the demand avoidance and tantrums we do have lots of fun. Laughing and joking (I frequently have to explain sayings to him as he takes things very literally), and I play lego or on his tablet with him.
He can sometimes flick from one extreme to the other in seconds.
The 'race to get changed' is more often used to get dressed for school or on the weekend. Its really a distraction technique. Keeping him calm at bedtimes is a major battle. We read to him almost every night and always have done.
The SEN team in Harlow have been really good and play an important role in communicating ideas to the school teachers. Social Services have referred us to DBit, who, in their short period of involvement have helped us enormously.

On the whole I think things are moving in the right direction, although every day is still a challenge.

OP posts:
Stuffofawesome · 27/01/2015 22:21

Even without a diagnosis I think some of the strategies useful for sensory processing might help you manage things like bedtime. Do some googling and see. The out of sync kid has fun is full of good practical games

IsItMeOr · 28/01/2015 01:51

If you find the answer on negotiating bedtime routine, do let me know!

We are having some success in making up stories, or telling DS interesting factoids - so we keep a cliff-hanger to entice him onto the next bit of the routine. It doesn't seem to matter that much that the stories are sometimes a bit rubbish. Although he has spotted (and complained) that I major on irrelevant detail rather than exciting plot points.

CAMHS gave us the tip that we should always have story time at the end of the day, even if it was very late and only short. So we always have 10 minutes, and usually a lot more. And if DS cooperates with the bedtime routine (i.e. nobody gets hurt) he gets 5 minutes extra, so stays up a tiny bit later. DS does love story time - albeit not as much as screen time - so that helps us some days.

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