7 year old boy that can't sleep- specialist help?

[curlycaz]

My DS aged 7 has a worsening sleep problem. He has always had sleep issues. From about two weeks old he would be awake for 8-10 hours at a time and used to cry continually. We spent a fortune on private sleep therapists for the first two years, none of which had any effect on him at all (but never gave our money back either!) He has probably never slept through the night. After he started school, it improved and he used to sleep from 9 or 11 on alternate nights. Now he is in Year 3, he never sleeps before midnight. He permanently looks ill, pale, huge bags under his eyes. He has terrible tantrums particularly in the morning when he is violent to his sister. We are all really suffering.

He is quite hyper generally, can't sit still or focus for long and can't sit down to eat his dinner. Of course I have asked GP's and health visitors for help and they have always said he will grow out of it. I now think it is changing his personality. He is unpleasant and grumpy all the time. But he is also exhausted all the time.

Does anyone have any advice about where I can go from here? I googled this topic, but the same sleep therapists as before came up and i have tried them all! I want to go to my GP and ask for a referral to someone but I don't know if anything is available. I would be so grateful for any help Sorry for the long post.

I think you should go back to the GP. At 7 he shouldn't be like this. Could I suggest you pick the GP you feel would be able to assist. In our GP surgery there is a Dr for children, one is good with women's issues etc.

At this stage I think you have earned the right to use the best that the NHS can provide.

My dd improved but i dont remember when exactly. I do knocthat me and dh didnt have more than five occassins where we got two nights of proper sleep an we tried it all. People trid to be kind but they didnt really believe us. When we stopped stressing and accepted resting quietly as an alternative to sleep, stopped trying the norm of bed and sleep at 7.00, 8.00 or whatever things improved. Dd ha to be in her room, no gadgets etc. this around 8 years. My ds has always slept well and still does. Dd is 16, did really well in gcses and always done lots of activities. She still goes to bed a 11.00 or 12.00, sleeps sometime after that. I have been there you have my support. Pm me if you want.

Doormouse is right. One of my DS would get worried at 7-8 if he couldnt get to sleep. We got him into his room, no gadgets as suggested by PP and said the most important thing was that he 'rested his eyes'.

He still uses that phase now and it seems to help when he is awake late.

And of course no fussing and allowing him to come into your room!

Just read back my illiterate message. I promise the it is my ipad keyboard not me! Sorry folks!

I think you should schedule his routine specially on diet, playing activity and sleep. If your DS eat perfect diet which should be suitable for 7 year child then he can feel sleepy on time. You should also make him to play and no any gadget or mobile phones to use, after playing he will definitely need to sleep.

Do you think he might be sensitive to something in his diet?

I'd write a diary of what he eats, and how is sleep is, and take the whole lot to the GP - ie go with "DS sleeps on average 7 hours a night, and is permanently tired, here is the proof" rather than "My child doesn't sleep enough"

It also might be worth talking to the receptionist at the GP surgery, and ask if there is a particular GP who it would be worth speaking to for this sort of thing, as they all have different interests.

walkar you've never had a poor sleeper of a child have you? There are some kids that however much exercise and "perfect" nutrition, they just don't switch off. I had one as a baby. Thank-fully for me, around 4 he started sleeping longer. Approaching 6, we usually get 9-10 straight hours out of him. My day starts at 5.10, when he pings out of bed. Hence being on MN at this time on a sat morning.

I think if you are doing the basics of no evening screen time, evening baths, an hour of excersise during the day, no caffine/sugar in the afternoons/evenings, then maybe you need to get professional help. They may end up slinging melatonin his way. Over the counter 5-HTP can also help but I don't know if it can be used by kids. Also magnesium and B vitamin complex are essential to sleep

Whilst waiting for professional help why dont you have a go at seeing if your boy just needs fewer hours sleep than the accepted norm. The bags under theyes and other issues may be due to the stress of him trying to do something he cant do, i am sure he wants to please his dm and do the right thing. More relaxing and less stress may put you all on the path to more sleep in the end.

My dd = too much play, exercise and play-too tired to sleep
Not enough excecise and play not tired enough to sleep. Too hungry, not hungry enough etc etc. we did find that food was a slight factor, cut out additives etc. i think our dd may be somewhere on the spectrum but too low level to reqiure intervention.

Deep breath, relax, strict rules around what time your ds goes up to bed, what he is allowed to do when he goes up, quiet routine as usual, less tension and stress, and a rule about when you expect him to lie down and rest his eyes.
Glass of wine or whatever for you.....

It does get better, by the time you ds is a teen they will be happy they have the ability to party out late, i am happy my dd could study late (not that she does that bit very often)

Does he have screen time before bed? We stopped our 2 year old looking at the iPad and his slept improved dramatically. Is it just getting to his sleep he has issues with or staying asleep? Have you thought about sleep apnoea and large tonsils at all? I'm just trying to throw some ideas out.

I would go back to the GP and tell them he hasn't grown out of it. You need to be firm.

Have you ever been referred to a sleep clinic?

I think you need to go to the GP and tell them what it is you want them to do.

I'm going through exactly the same with my 7yo DS. He's awake at 11pm every night eyes wide and just not sleepy. Have seen a couple of (locum) docs who have been useless with advice/treatment so I think I'll do what's advised above and ask at reception who he should see. I've also had him referred to school nurse in case he can help with referral to CBT type treatment...

Good luck, I know how anxious it makes me too

See if you can get his GP to prescribe melatonin, it's not a drug and it's not addictive, it's a natural sleep hormone but some of us don't produce enough of it. It's in milk in small quantities, which is why we are often told to have a milky drink if we can't sleep.
My friend's DS took it for nearly two years with no side effects, and I've used a version of it I bought over the counter in Spain (where you don't need a prescription for melatonin) on myself and my dd3.

It doesn't work for everyone but it's certainly worth a try.

Another suggestion which is a bit odd is to feng shui his bedroom. I haven't tried this myself, but it worked miracles on a friend's dd.

Thanks so much for all your messages- I had a bereavement so I didn't check back on the messages and didn't get any alerts so I thought no one had replied! Your responses are very helpful. I have just made a GP's appointment but I am interested all of your ideas- the CBT, the melatonin, diet and even the feng shui makes sense because I don't think his bedroom is a very relaxing environment- he's put football posters all over his ceiling so he can look at the when he's in bed! Thanks again.

Have you looked into sleep apnoea? It's linked to hyperactivity in children, I believe.

I think melatonin has to be prescribed by a Consultant as it's not on the list of drugs that GP's can prescribe. It is often prescribed for children with disabilities who have trouble getting off to sleep, and can be helpful.