Would you describe this as a seizure or not? (8 yr old)

[MorningTimes]

Hi,

I have a apt for my son to see the nurse practioner later today (only apt available)- I am not sure if he needs to see the actual GP instead, that's one of the reasons I am asking for advice before the apt.

He is 8 & has been on antibiotics (amoxicillin) for two days (today would be day 3) for a nasty bout of tonsilitis. He is never unwell normally but had a high fever & was in a lot of pain before he started the antibiotics.

He felt much better 24 hours after taking them. He wet the bed on the first night though, which was strange since he has been dry at night since he was three & has never had an accident.

Yesterday, he went back to school and seemed totally well. At about 10.30 last night, I heard a loud crashing noise from his bedroom and went in to find him throwing himself around on his bed, shouting that his throat hurt. He had knocked a picture off the wall by throwing his arms around and seemed a bit disorientated & kind of 'wild-eyed' with big pupils, a bit like someone who has woken after a nightmare.

I was trying to calm him down but he kept jerking his arms out and arching his back so suddenly and violently that he was hitting out at me. He was concious though. I asked him to stop the jerking and he said he didn't know why he was doing it. He was quite hysterical though! After a few minutes of the jerking & throwing & screaming he became calm again , & he said he thought he had wet himself (which he had). I was there with him when this must have happened & he wasn't aware of it at the time.

After he went into the toilet, he did a poo (sorry for all the information but I don't know if it is relevant!!) & then he was calm again but really tired.

I haven't sent him to school today, although he seems totally well, and I haven't given him the antibiotic as I am worried this may be a side-effect. It certainly isn't one I've heard of though! Can anyone shed any light on this please? Might it just be one of those things that randomly happens due to illness, or should I ask for it to be followed up? DS didn't have a fever last night, if that makes any difference.

No idea. So he could answer you while he was doing the jerking and throwing himself around? Deffo worth that trip to the nurse practitioner.

It certainly sounds like it could be a seizure, particularly the wetting himself and feeling really tired afterwards. I think being ill can bring on occaisonal seizures, but it's a doctor, not a nurse you need to speak to, and I would be asking fir him to be seen today. After a possible fit a doctor wiykd want to see him ASAP.

sounds like a seizure, call GP or take him to GP

Thank you for your replies. I just saw them after getting back from the surgery where we saw the nurse practioner (our surgery is really busy which is why it was the only apt left today.)

She checked him over quite thouroughly & did a urine test for some reason. She advised me to keep an eye on him & that if happens again, to take his temperature & to call someone if he doesn't have a temperature. She said the fact that he was concious & remembers waking up & jerking around shows that it probably wasn't a seizure, that it was maybe brought on by having a temperature.

Having said that, DS can't remember wetting himself or me taking him into the bathroom afterwards. Fingers crossed that it doesn't happen again, I am feeling a bit uneasy about bedtime tonight

If it does happen again, I will definitely call straight away & insist that he sees a GP who follows it up. Thank you again for taking the time to reply.

• thoroughly, sorry for iPhone corrections!

I suppose the nurse is saying that if it's a febrile convulsion kind of thing brought on my high fever then it's not as concerning as a convulsion with no temp.

Hard to say. My children have had febrile convulsions and have lost conciousness.

There is something called rigors - violent shaking caused by an infection - but what you describe sounds a bit too violent to be this.

Like another poster has said, the wetting himself and tiredness afterwards can happen with a seizure.

I would take him back to the GP. I wouldn't wait for it to happen again.

It's probably standard to test the urine, looking for signs of infection, excess sugar etc.

I am a nurse practitioner and I would have referred you to the GP with that history. I would make an appt to see one if I were you but would continue with the a/b as an 'allergic' or 'anaphylactic' reaction would almost always happen with a few hours or 1 day of starting the a/b.
It is not uncommon to have a fit during illness with or without a fever on a one-off but I would always get it checked.

I hate to be alarmist but your nurse is wrong if she says the fact he remembers what happened and was conscious means it can't be a seizure.

Whilst consciousness is lost in tonic-clonic seizures, is tonic seizures consciousness is normally preserved. Furthermore they most often occur during sleep and it sounds very like what your DS experienced. My DD also loses bladder and sometimes bowel control which was one of the clinching factors for the neurologist in thinking she was having tonic seizures as it showed she was losing muscle control during the events (later confirmed because I videod her seizing). My DD has had tonic seizures in sleep and continued seizing after waking.

Whilst it may have been brought on by his temperature it is rather unusual to develop febrile seizures at his age. If you remain concerned you should ask for a referral to paediatric neurologist for an EEG and/or MRI, particularly if it happens again. I have sat having conversations with my DD whilst she has had tonic seizures and when she has simple partical seziures she is not even aware of them happening. Personally if it happened again I would go straight to A&E.

sorry, simple partial seizures

Have you considered night terrors. My brother always used to have them when he had been poorly with a fever. He would thrash out look right through you, get up and walk around and sometimes try and do quite dangerous things like try and push his foot in a fire. Then he would suddenly come around.

I'd go back to the gp.

I think adoptmama is spot on. I would definitely see GP straight away

Go back to your GP. Write down a clear account of what happened and don't forget to mention the bed wetting.
I agree with adoptmama that seizures shouldn't be ruled out. We went through a similar experience with DS 9yr last year and it was fully investigated. He has been diagnosed with night time epilepsy but does not have to take medication and so far has had no further seizures. We have been reassured that he will grow out of it by puberty.
A good clear description of the event will help the GP decide whether he needs further investigation.
We queried febrile convulsions but the consultants who saw him immediately after the seizure said they were very uncommon at this age. DS had fallen out of bed during his seizure and was admitted to the children's ward as a precaution in case it was due to head injury.
We had never witnessed any activity beforehand but there had been a few occasions when he had slight loss of bladder control as he was going to sleep which pointed to partial seizures.
Hopefully it is related to the recent infection and you can stop worrying.