Bit worried about ds3's vaccinations

[Rooners]

He's just 1 and I got a letter about an appt in a week or so.

I rang up to ask what the vaccinations are for this time, and they said it's all the random Men C and tetanus? etc which is fine and also the MMR.

I don't want him to have the MMR so told them this and they said 'just discuss it with the nurse when you get there'.

I know we can refuse but last time I 'discussed it with the nurse', the nurse was intransigent and made me feel like a right weirdo for not wanting my child to have it. She gave me the whole spiel.

Can anyone of a similar mind give me any advice on how to avoid an argument? I don't want to be made to feel incompetent, odd, or outrageous for saying no thankyou when he is having all the others.

Is there a reason why you don't want the MMR?

No specific advice on this as I'm not in the same camp as you on this issue but, as a vegetarian family with young children, we come up against opposing views fairly frequently and all is say is as long as you're 100% certain that you are doing the right thing for your children just stand strong and don't let it affect you.

The nurse will probably be trained and instructed to tell you about the risks and the benefits, and as you're views are not in the mainstream a degree of surprise is somewhat inevitable. I think you just have to be thick skinned about it if your mind is set on this.

Your views not you're views. 3 days overdue and about 2 hrs sleep will have that affect on my grammar!!

Are you offering your child an alternative method of immunisation (ie single jabs)? If you are, then you have an easy response. Although MMR has no credible link with developmental disorder, I do understand the fears that have been raised in parents - so single jabs seem to provide a compromise.

In my opinion, not providing any imms for those diseases is more difficult to justify.

Thankyou...Last I hope you manage some sleep later in the day you poor thing

I'll think about single jabs later on, I think mainly I just don't want him to have all these immunisations at once. Maybe we will do it later,

but I have doubts about the efficacy of the MMR tbh. Ds2 didn't have it as he had already had measles a month or two before and I was advised against it.

Ds1 had both doses.

Partly what puts me off is the hard line, no negotiation, no discussion attitude of every HCP I have ever asked about the issue. That freaks me out and makes me want to avoid it at all costs but I don't want to do the 'cutting off nose to spite face' thing so am trying to remain open minded.

Thank you

Regardless of the politics of this issue I think you just have to accept they are paid to tow the line and have to deliver the information to you. So if you're sure about it all just let it wash over you.

Many friends have the same complaint about midwives and breastfeeding (ie being made to feel guilty if they've chosen to formula feed).

Yes that's true. I will try and let it wash over me. I think I need to go in there confident and just say we have decided just to have the others for now please and will consider the MMR later.

And refuse to discuss it further, which after all is what they do!

Exactly!

'The line' is often a line for a reason. Why don't you discuss your fears with the nurse/gp. You can always reschedule the mmr but it would be horrible to put ypur child at risk for no reason.

I have tried to discuss it before Ding but it doesn't work like that.

And I kind of resent the implication of your last sentence there.

I think mainly I just don't want him to have all these immunisations at once.

That statement alone makes it clear that you're not doing this for 'no reason'!

Tell the nurse calmly and firmly that you are not happy with so many vaccines at the same time, but you will give full thought to the MMR when your dc is a bit older.

I'm really uncomfortable with the pressure put on parents to vax in such an intense manner.

Yes...thankyou Andro. I feel a bit more confident to say no, now.

She is a strange nurse, very loud voice (I expect she has a lot of elderly patients) and very sort of fast and a bit scary.

I had my smear with her a few years ago and am too scared to let her anywhere near there again - it was awful. She really rushed it, it was like being poked with a sharp stick.

Anyway, thanks again for the support. I know what she will say but I'll just go quiet I think rather than trying to defend my decision.

if you go for the single jabs I wouldnt space them too wide. measles is making a come back.

they are jabbed young because their age makes them high risk if they caught these diseases at this age.

often wondered what length of time spacing them individually means in practice? two weeks? a month? more?

Just tell her you are not having it. Take a letter if you want - and hand it over and just say - 'my letter explains what I am doing' (you don't have to do that). It's not really her place to tell you what to do - if you ask advice she can provide it, but she shouldn't be forcing it on you. Once you get through to them that you have made up your mind they stop badgering you.

Is he 13 months? Tell her that the measles component is slightly more likely to work in a slightly older child (esp if you breastfed and had measles yourself). So you're waiting a few months. She can't argue with that - it's true.

Thankyou both - and many thanks for that Saintly, you've nailed it and I will say that to her.

Wondering how old he ought to be though for maximum efficacy. Any idea? If we decide to go ahead that is. She might ask me!

Depends - the problem arises if he still has circulating antibodies from you - more likely if you had measles yourself (& presumably breastfeeding may have an affect). They used to say 18 months, then 15. I think part of the reason it's earlier now is because babies are being born with lower antibody levels because they've been born to vaccinated mothers who grew up when measles wasn't circulating (this isn't controversial I found the info about antibody levels & reasons on a health protection agency PDF).

Oh cool - maybe that is something to do with why they advised against it so soon after ds2 had measles...I was still BF him, and yes I did have measles when I was about 9.

Am still BF this one so will use the info.

That's really good to know. Many thanks.

He's had measles? How old was he?

If you were exposed to measles then, then your immunity will have been boosted by that exposure and ds3 is more likely to have immunity for longer (as he'll have had a sensible dose of antibodies from you). So 12 months would risk him still having circulating antibodies I would have thought (and if you vaccinate with those present then he won't get good immunity and will be at risk from when his passive immunity wears off until his booster). Maybe ask the nurse

In his case, if you were fairly recently exposed to measles via ds2 you do have a very good conventionally medically acceptable reason for delaying for a few months.

Oh brill

Ds2 was 10mo, but he is 6 now so it was 5 years or so ago.

Even so I think I understand the mechanics of it now as in why they won't get such good immunity from the vaccine if they already have antibodies from me.

This is good stuff. Ask the nurse LOL

Thanks again.

If ds2 had measles at 10 months he may have immunity from that anyway. And there's certainly published evidence that would back up leaving MMR to 15-18 months in your ds3's case. Any longer you'd just have to say no - as in there isn't evidence as such - but tbh they're not going to chase you once you're gone past the regular appointment so you can just book the vaccinations for whenever you want (& if they accept you've said no they stop chasing you at all).

Here: this might be useful if the nurse isn't convinced. Looks like Denmark gives MMR at 15 months to avoid issues with maternal antibodies - www.ssi.dk/English/HealthdataandICT/The%20Danish%20Childhood%20Vaccination%20Programme/Q%20and%20A/MMR%20Vaccination.aspx

That is fantastic. I will print it off.

Thanks so much this is more than I had hoped for when I started the thread.

When I had a very demanding practice nurse I just said "but you aren't telling me any more than is written in the leaflet and I think there are other arguments that I need to consider as well as HA published propaganda". DS then had a very bad reaction to an immunisation and we were referred to the immunology consultant for the Health Authority.

I was very pro immunisation but concerned about the schedules. We had a very interesting discussion which resulted in a conclusion that immunisation was a very good thing but children were individuals and needed to be treated as individuals in an holistic way. That I think is the problem with healthcare generally, especially as it is becoming more and more nurse and protocol/guideline led rather than led by a clinical, medically qualified doctor who knows their patient.

I totally agree with you Near. In fact with this one, he had his four week vaccs and really was very upset by it - he screamed for hours afterwards.

I refused to let him have the others till he was around 7 months old. By that time hewas far more able to cope with them - his system was stronger, everything working better, he had some idea that his pain could stop, I suppose, whereas when he was truly tiny, he was just lost in a maelstrom of pain and hurt and fear.

There was no way I was going to put him through that again. He was already a very upset baby so it made sense to wait.