pain causes child to pass out

[zim]

Hi, my 3 year old passes out for a few seconds-as much as a minute when she feels pain. It first started before she turned 3 when (unknown to us) she had put a pebble in her ear (the terror!) and banged her ear which much have been excruciating. We called an ambulance that day and all checks they did at a&E were fine (except incidently found she had urine infection). However, she has since then had another couple of passing out incidents (one of which happened outside at nursery which is so frightening as she could have banged her head/fallen off something high up when it happened). We were told that she would grow out of it but today (almost 4 months since first happened) she fell at park and badly grazed her arm and it happened again. It was only for a couple of seconds and she was in my arms at the time (I was able to scoop her up immediately) but its SO frightening because her eyes roll back and she goes limp. I'm worried as she starts school nursery in a few weeks and I know the ratios are lower and that she could pass out and not be seen by a member of staff. If anyone has experienced this or and could offer advice I would be most grateful or if there is a thread already that you could direct me to (Ive searched but cant seem to find one) ?
I'm a bit fed up that people call it 'breath holding' because she is not holding her breath as some children do when having mad tantrums (and believe me she is the QUEEN of tantrums but she has never passed out through one of them bad boys!) it is the pain which is causing it bless her little heart :(

That must be so upsetting for you. No experience, myself (though I have heard of it and have also heard that it's to do with immature nervous system and that children do grow out of it as their nervous system grows), but the first thing to do is to discuss it openly with the nursery and your ds's key worker. They need to know what to expect and how you want them to deal with it.

I work in a nursery and would like to think that the parents had complete trust in us to deal with their children's conditions. You really need to discuss it with the nursery and make sure everyone is aware of the condition and most importantly, what their response should be.
You need to let them know if you want an ambulance calling or just to phone you.
Incidently, I passed out from the pain when I twisted my ankle really badly. I was in my 30s at the time. I also threw up [tmi]. I was rescued by the mountain rescue team, which was very embarassing.
It might be worth just checking with your gp, if they said she would grow out of it and she hasn't.

Have you tried googling relflexic anoxic seizures

more information

Is it that she goes into shock easily, perhaps? I do and was worse when younger. It doesn't even have to be me in pain/hurt. Dsis knocked her head open, but I was the one that caused most alarm by fainting, only after I'd been brought round and said what had happened was my dsis looked after (who was happily running round still playing)

For me it's nothing to do with the pain, it's much more to do with looking at an injury. I can cope with quite bad pain, but a cut that looks nasty (even if it's not actually bad, just a lot of blood) is what sends me reeling.

What is best for me is firstly, don't make a fuss over it. Play down injuries. "Only a little graze, lets mop it up" is much better than "goodness what a lot of blood". Secondly, sit me down, and talk to me. Much better if I have something to concentrate on. Occasionally I have to lie down. Sipping water helps too.

One of my dc is the same. I do tell people that she goes into shock easily.

I have a DC that does this, often after a bump on the head. To be fair, it is fairly similar to cyanotic breath holding. Not sure why you are upset that people call it breath holding; it's a convenient short hand, and even where children go this as part of a tantrum, they aren't holding their breath on purpose, it is a very similar response to a stimulus.

I was referring to reflex anoxic seizures (RAS), as Bruffin linked to. They are only 'caused by pain' to the extent that certain sorts of pain act as a stimulus, in a similar way to a tantrum being the stimulus for cyanotic breath holding. My DC does the pallid sort, the RAS.

My doctor advised not to make a fuss and simply lie them down somewhere safe. Although they are involuntary, I was told that as they get older they could start a more deliberate breath-holding if they see they get lots of attention.

The link i gave does say its different to normal toddler breathholding, which is what OP is getting at I think.

Poor you - and your dd. it definitely sounds like Reflex Anoxic Seizures. My ds used to have these when he was little, first one was about 20 months when he fell off a wooden beam at Tumble Tots. He screamed than as I got to him he went limp, his eyes rolled back and he stopped breathing for a few seconds. My dr prescribed RAS and I did contact the association (I think it was called Stars?). They were really helpful and sent me some leaflets. Luckily for us ds only had another two and he's now 8 and hasn't had one since he was 2.

I get fed up with people calling it 'breath holding' too. When people refer to 'breath holding', they usually mean that the child is deliberately holding their breath. One person even said to me that my 12 month old was trying to manipulate me when she stopped breathing!

As other posters have said, it sounds like a reflex anoxic seizure. Two of my children had these, including the seizure part. DD1 had the seizures because it was too long before she started breathing again.

The good news is that both of them seem to have grown out of it. Dd1 is now nine and the last one was when she was four.

Ds is four and has had one a year ago. It's never happened at school. I always put them in the recovery position when it happened and made sure they didn't have any food in their mouth.

They were both given ECGs to rule out other problems.

Have you discussed it with your GP? Keep a detailed diary of all of these incidents including duration, colour of skin. Also follow a First Aid course.

Thanks for all your replies, we've been away so only had chance to respond now....will be Googling reflect/ anoxic seizures now. Glad others understand that I want health care professionals to make a distinction between breath holding due to tantrums and as a reaction to pain. Way to deal with situation will be different, thanks a lot:-)

I had this as a child. It lasted till I was 13 and then stopped. It was always picked up at school, on one occasion at 12 it happened in assembly and a teacher scattered other children as she got to before I hit the floor.
My parents were told it was something you grew out of as a teenager (which I did).
I think it is about warning school so they know what to expect.

Haven't read the whole thread but yes, we have experience of this with our DS and yes, lots of people, including the Paed called it breath holding. Apparently its a rare form of breath holding and they do grow out of it.

Our DS went to preschool. He had once done it and not started breathing again so had to be resuscitated. So we talked it through with the staff. They all had a refresher on CPR before he started and there was information in each room on what to do if he stopped breathing. He was absolutely fine and by 3 had grown out of it.

it could be vasovagal, blood pressure dropping in response to pain. dh has had this since childhood when a tap on the right place on his knee made him black out. he also did it several timea last year when he broke his arm and passed out whenever anyone touched it