I'm taking dd to the Dr's today, only the third time ever she's been.

[VivaLeBeaver]

Which at 12yo ain't bad. But I'm still worried that he'll think I'm fussing.

She's had really bad stomach pains on and off for about 10 months now. We went 10 months ago to see the GP and he gave her some buscopan......which seemed to help. The pains still come but they're once a fortnight rather than constant now.

But now she's been sick every day for months. Not tummy bug sick but its straight after eating like she can't keep her food down. Not loads of sick, just a bit more than a mouthful.

I think he's probably just going to tell me to give her some Antacid isn't he? I probably am fussing aren't I?

Wow.
As a relative newcomer, I'm amazed by the number of critical comments here, seemingly designed to promote anxiety and/or feelings of inadequacy in the poster. We're all trying to do our best, and I would guess that not slamming each other's parenting efforts is paramount to a forum like this one. Especially when, as is always the case in these situations, we do not have all the details including, crucially, mothers' (and/or fathers') intuition (not an airy-fairy concept, but a name for the types of complex - and often highly accurate - judgments which parents are unable to verbalise).

In relation to the doctor thing, I think we do way too much medicalisation and the attitude of "always best to take them to the doctor" is, to my mind, frankly wrong. Doctors are great for some things. They don't have all the answers, and we're constantly having to make judgments about what to take and not take the kids for. If we didn't, the NHS would collapse.

Rant over.

So, Viva - yes, this sounds like reflux to me (though I'm not a doctor). Especially if "burpy" rather than associated with full-on wretching. Often described as a "sicky burp". Usually not serious and very common, but may be worth checking if you feel it's affecting your daughter as, in my understanding, it can sometimes cause scarring (and often discomfort). Best of luck with it.

I'm sure as a veteran of MN, viva is not surprised in the least

Thanks ClockWatchingLady. I do appreciate the helpful comments you and others such as Sirzy, Flisspaps, Catlady have made. Sorry if I've missed anyone out.

I know that Bafana apologised and said she had only been answering my first couple of posts when she hadn't got a full picture. Saying I then gave further information which changed things. Then I think is it my fault for not giving dd's full medical history, etc in my first post.....but I don't think it is. I hadn't posted asking if people thought I was been neglectful by not taking her earlier so no I hadn't posted everything, didn't feel at first I needed to.

But people were very happy to stick the boot in without knowing the full picture or even asking if there were things I was thinking it could have been. I was fairly sure what the Dr would do today and I was right. It had crossed my mind not to take her but to try the gaviscon route myself first but I did think that enough is enough and took her.

But even of things had been different and I should have taken her earlier - is it really helpful to jump up and down calling another poster neglectful and saying that I have to live with myself when I've made dd suffer, etc? I know it's all words on a screen, etc but people wouldn't be so nasty in real life.

DS1 had no history of reflux and started burping and being sick in his mouth when he was 6.

Turns out it was the incorrect swallowing action caused by his tongue tie causing him to swallow air alongside food which wasn't chewed properly because he couldn't manoevre the food properly in his mouth.

We got his tie revised and it stopped straight away. The docs were all for putting him on meds for life

Could it be something similar? I had no idea ds1 was tied until I started reading about it, his tongue looked completely normal to me but we had had trouble breastfeeding in the early days which was the only clue.

I don't think she's got a tongue tie, she breast fed for 16 months no problem.

She's now refusing to eat her dinner as she says she doesn't want to be sick.

She's saying she's not going to eat anymore. Apparently she didn't have any lunch. I know she didn't have breakfast as she's not eaten breakfast for ages.

So now we're having a row. I've told her she has to sit at the table till bedtime whether she eats it or not.

I know I'm doing the wrong thing but don't know what to do. I never wanted to have battles about food.

She's now saying she feels sick so she can't eat it. And I don't believe her that she feels sick as she wasn't feeling sick 5 minutes ago.

When I was roughly 13 or 14, I had similar symptoms. I would wake up feeling normal in the morning, go to school, then feel nauseous shortly after a small lunch. After going home several days in a row, my mom got me in to see the doctor. Turns out I had a stomach ulcer. Not sure if that was considered? Hope your daughter feels better soon.

i honestly think this is all attention.

viva - where is the discipline when it comes to spitting vomit on your carpet? that is vile. she surely knows that it's disgusting so why doesn't she attempt to run to the toilet? it is this behavior that definitely makes me think it's attention. also the refusal to take the gaviscon before even trying kind of says 'i don't really need it because there isn't anything wrong with me anyway.'

Ds1 started doing similar when he was 8. With him it's reflux, which was initially caused by gluten intolerance - in fact we've been told to treat him as coeliac, because although his blood test was negative (he'd just had a norovirus bug and didn't eat anything for over a week, let alone enough gluten for the test) his food diary showed a clear correlation between symptoms and gluten intake and the paed felt it was severe enough to go completely gluten free.

He has now been gluten free for almost two years, but still get's reflux when he is stressed.

His reflux presents exactly the same way as your daughter, nausea, plus small pockets of vomit being brought back at mealtimes.

He doesn't have medication for it, because he hates Gaviscon and other than going the route of acid inhibitors, such as omeprazole there isn't really much else on offer. Omeprazole etc aren't appropriate because the reflux is episodic, rather than permanent. Apparently they used to prescribe chewable Rennie for it, but the drug guidance changed and they no longer do that.

If she's not eating for long periods of time, the acid will build up and make it worse, causing the nausea and then the mini-vomits when she does eat. Breakfast is really important - preferably something like porridge (ds has gluten free oats for his) that takes a while to digest.

Fatty foods will exacerbate it, as will anything too spicy and/or over-stuffing herself.

I can understand why she's making the association between eating and being sick and therefore the logic of not wanting to eat, but little and often throughout the day, starting with breakfast, is the way to go.

As for feeling sick when presented with food, it is actually possible, because the sight of food provokes stomach acid production, which - on an empty stomach - will trigger the whole cycle.

Could you perhaps try her with some low fat, neutral food to start with, while she builds her eating back up - thinking perhaps fat-free yoghurt or similar?

oh and when i was about 12 someone told me about eating disorders and i thought id have a go at having one. it was all attention i thought it would be cool. i stopped eating for ages but in the end i quit. cuz i got hungry. the things 12yo girls will do for attention is unreal.

but obviously i might be wrong

She's eaten her dinner.

I've told her anymore spitting/sicking on the carpet will mean she has to clear it up. I was telling her off before but then always fall for the "I can't help it" routine.

ALovelyBunch, from my experience with ds, there is no way he would make it to the bathroom in time and our bathroom is close to the dining room. It's a sudden forceful 'reflux' of food, so there's little time to react - and in ds's case he always freezes when he's sick anyway.

I do agree that she should be involved in cleaning it up though. If she has to at least help each time, you'd soon find out if she has any control over it.

Ds really couldn't handle Gaviscon, although he normally loves anything minty. For him it's the texture, although to be fair he has Aspergers and sensory problems with pasty food textures.

You can buy chewable Gaviscon, personally I dislike those more than the liquid, as they sort of foam up in your mouth - but it might be worth a try.

Moosemama, that's interesting about spicy foods making it worse. She had curry last night and though she was fine yesterday today has been a bad day.

I would love for her to eat breakfast but she dislikes toast, bagels, sandwiches, all cereals inc pop tarts, fruit, yoghurt, pancake, omelette, bacon butties, porridge.

I make her a big hot chocolate every morning so at least she's getting a load of milk.

I've told her she has to stop drinking lemonade as well because fizzy drinks won't be helping I wouldn't have thought. Should probably have thought of that before.

I'm going to get her gaviscon tablets for school.

Hmm, hate to say it, but too much milk tends to set ds off as well. So the hot chocolate might be exacerbating things. We do have dairy intolerance in the family though (I hate to even think about that possibility with ds though as he is already, a gluten free staunch vegetarian with sensory related food issues ).

You're absolutely right about fizzy drinks. Fortunately they are another thing ds can't cope with sensory-wise, so we haven't had to deal wit that one.

Re breakfast. What foods does she like? Not necessarily breakfast foods, but just anything to make sure she has something every morning and then regularly throughout the day.

If she had a curry yesterday and was fine, but bad today, is there any chance that it's worse on school days? Just thinking a) that she probably eats less on school days - there can be competition in secondary schools for which girl can survive on the least food and/or b) that if there is an anxiety/stress element to it, that relates to the social side of school, she might not even be aware of it, but you would probably find it's worse on weekdays, then settles a bit at the weekend.

I would advise starting to make a note in your diary every time she says she feels sick or is actually sick and seeing if there is any pattern to it. A food diary would be even better. Just quickly note down what she's eaten each day and underneath any symptoms. This was ultimately what helped us untangle what was going on for ds1.

Food diarys a good idea, will start that today and try and work out triggers whether its food or school days.

Short of cooking her a jacket potato or cheesy pasta I don't know what she could have at breakfast and I'm not sure shed feel like those first thing!

Hmm, poached or boiled egg? Crackers, low fat rice pudding, smoothie?

No to eggs, no to rice pudding she might have crackers. Will try those.

She goes through phases of eating stuff, nice upon a time she would happily have had boiled eggs and soldiers it was all she wanted for weeks. Then one day point blank refusal.

I make my porridge with finely chopped apple, a spoonful of cinnamon and a quick squirt of agave syrup (you could use golden syrup) - it tastes like apple pie.

Another idea is breakfast muffins, there are loads of different recipes if you google, so bound to be one she likes.

There's even a one-cup, 5-minute recipe for one here

I have made these muffins for my lot a few times and they really like them. I know it's an Annabel Karmel recipe, but it's actually really nice.

I do understand what it's like when they have very firm ideas about what they will/won't eat, by the way - I'm not nagging, just trying to see if I can come up with anything to help.

No I appreciate it, thanks. Will look at muffin recipes.

I'm upstairs now and though I can't hear the exact details she's laughing to Dh telling him about something funny she and her friends did at school today.

All I got was sobbing about how she has no friends.

I think you are the opposite of neurotic tbh!
I would be asking/expecting blood tets, some ppi's (like omeprazole) and a referral to a gastro.
What she is experiencing is not normal...probably not serious either given her age, but definitely not normal.

I had stress induced GERD, (gastro esophageal reflux disease) a decade or so ago. I had very very similar symptoms to your DD but was never sick on the carpet

It sounds to me like she is very unhappy at school and that food choices and this burping/sickness is to a degree something she can control. Her unwillingness to attempt to get well rings alarm bells as it suggests she is rather liking the attention.

The drugs I was on were omeprazole and ranitidine and I was on them about eight months, eventually the cure was to eat regular small meals and to avoid any trigger foods. I cut out everything acidic (including tomatoes and fruit), reduced both my dairy and my gluten intake, cut down on sugar and fat and ensured I maintained a healthy weight. I got very little sympathy from my wider family but DP was a star.

Now I am pg its back to haunt me!

Oh, and my dad has this issue ATM, and it's very distressing for him.
The gp,seems to think its muscular.
He had had an endoscopy and that was clear.
Has she had the h pylori test? (Stomach ulcer)
Protein for breakfast is key here I think, and I would cut out the milk..that could actually be making the problem worse.
Would she eat fish fingers and beans for breakfast?
I know it sounds old, but it not miles away from kippers!
Omelette?
Cheesy muffins? ( I do mine with pizza topping and grated mozerella)

Food diary seems like a good plan.