A very real issue. Asbestos in our schools

[fransafety]

I was surfing the web the other day as you do and I came across a hugely disturbing fact "75% of all schools in the uk contain asbestos" I KNOW RIGHT, I thought the same that doesn't sound very good. So I started doing some research, you know basic Google searches "whats is asbestos" "dangers of asbestos" "asbestos in schools" and each and everyone of the searches came back with quite frankly horrific results. I am aiming to start a blog on this matter as I feel there is no where near enough information or awareness being given to us parents. Tomorrow when you say good bye to your children at the school gates take a second and have a look at the building and think " Is your children's school part of that 75%? if so are your children breathing in deadly asbestos fibers? and What is the school doing to protect our children?" Blogging is a new concept to me so its going to be a bit of a trial and error process. So please bare with me. I look forward to hearing any information or stories anyone has on this matter.

Thanks
Fran x

Isn't asbestos all right if it's not interfered with?

For instance if there is asbestos there and building an extension or reroofing would disturb it, it could cause flakes to be available to breathe in.

I know my children's school keep an asbestos register so if any workmen are in they know where it is so care can be taken.

Asbestos is fine if not disturbed.

When doing building work in a likely location an asbestos survey is undertaken.

Lots and lots of buildings have it.

I think you may be over reacting somewhat.

My kitchen roof had asbestos in - it wasn't a problem until there was a leak and the ceiling needed replacing. At that point specialists came in and removed it all. I wouldn't worry unduly.

Asbestos is fine if it is undisturbed,

It's bloody good in a fire.

you are all right, if its not disturbed it is not dangerous. The truth of the matter is that if there is asbestos in a building you can not guarantee that it will not be disturbed. Holes being made in walls, footballs being kicked a ceiling ect. for the people saying that it is fine please have a look at some of these articles www.asbestosexposureschools.co.uk its an extremely real problem.

My house has a part asbestos roof, it is fine if not broken.

Fran seriously you are being OTT it is very hard to break it and you have to be under it when it breaks to inhale to teeny little fibres and be exposed to it for quite a while for it to cause damage. This damage does not show for 30 years.

May I recommend a tin-foil hat as a protection against asbestos. As a bonus, it also protects against Wi-Fi signals.

It's pretty poor in a fire, though :(

I have always been a little about this too.
But I always think I dont enough about it to decide either way.
Saying that the damage does not show for 30 years only accounts for 30 years,doesnt account for the other 50 years that we may live for.

Fran, you should definitely take steps to improve knowledge and awareness of asbestos in schools but please start with your own knowledge and awareness. Wait until you REALLY know your subject before you start blogging. N.B. ranty single issue websites are not necessarily the best source for research.

Yes i think there are better places to address matters like this Fran but it does seem like there is a general lack of awareness so really children are particularly vulnerable when it comes to asbestos, as awareness is not being raised detailing the dangers and prolonged lasting effects.
It seems as though just because of this 30+ year wait it justifies taking a casual approach......

Fran there is a high level of asbestos awareness in schools. We have a register of potential sites of asbestos and lots of rules regarding not drilling, stapling, etc in any surfaces unless they have positively been shown not to contain asbestos. This is also why it costs a fortune to get any building work done in schools as we have to use contractors who are licensed to deal with asbestos safely. You are much more at risk from a neighbour who is doing a bit of DIY on his asbestos roof than you are in school environment.

christinecagney,are you saying that the schools that know they have asbestos all have these rules?
How do you know about the last sentence? im somewhat discounting the 30 year bit,as quite frankly I dont myself or my children to suffer from it in any parts of our lives. Or the teachers, school dinner ladies,secretaries etc

Asbestos is so highly regulated in the UK tbh, that you are probably safer here than almost anywhere else in the world.

Asbestos in schools would usually be found in ceiling tiles, roof spaces, boiler rooms and heating ducts etc. Each of these areas where it may be contained will be listed on a register, and maintenance etc is inspected annually by HSE registered asbestos compliance personnel. Most councils etc have there own team to deal with it.

A lot of the asbestos on these registers will be asbestos cement only which itself is far less dangerous than other types. In public areas though it is just as regulated as the more fibrous blue & white asbestos.

In private domestic premises there are no regulations which cover cement type asbestos, and as such you are definitley more likely to breath in fibres as a result of neighbours DIY than you are in a regulated public area (which includes communal spaces in residential dwellings). The only rules about cement asbestos in private dwellings is that it has to be disposed of correctly.

Schools are pretty safe fron the effects of asbestos these days from what I know.

I would like to start by saying the response that has come back is what i expected, and this is the problem. It has shown to me there is a clear underlining lack of awareness and true factual information on the state of asbestos in schools.

MissKeithLemon; you are right the HSE does require schools to keep a register on asbestos, but from my research it is proving ever so much so that these registers are in fact not being kept up to date,

In a document I found it states that in 2010 more than 600 UK schools were surveyed and only 28% said that asbestos in the workplace was clearly marked, to add to this only one third of the 600 schools were even aware that a register was kept with only 20% confirming that this register was even shown to contractors before any work commenced. www.ucu.org.uk/media/pdf/2/1/asbestos_in_schools_booklet_lo_res.pdf

The more time you spend looking into this the more you start to realize that we genuinely have a problem here. One of the key problems is this whole "oh it only effects you if you disturb it, and "no don't worry, only blue asbestos is the dangerous one" this is in fact untrue and is simply hearsay.
We need to start looking into the true facts and taking information from up to date research to take an active stance in resurrecting this problem.

Please read the links I have put up as they explain everything i have said in much more detail

thanks x

I agree that home asbestos exposure is far more likely to be a risk than in schools.

I suspect lots of people have no clue whether their home contains asbestos. If it was built after circa 1940 and before the 1990s, you can bet there's asbestos somewhere. It's often disturbed by drilling, sanding, or general renovations and is not always obvious to look at. Who would have known, for example, that the lino under the carpets in our renovation project contained asbestos fibres?!"

And nearly every ironing board pre about 1980 had the iron rest made from it,
so how many of us have been exposed to it that way.

Fran, could you spare a little time to learn how to post links correctly.

www.ucu.org.uk/media/pdf/2/1/asbestos_in_schools_booklet_lo_res.pdf

Sorry new to the forum, I'm still learning
MsHighwater: What are your thought on the matter?

I had a quick read through this link and what's astonishing is just how recent these surveys have been taken. Here is something I have just found, * A 2010/11 HSE inspection of 164 schools outside local authority control, including private schools, church schools and academies, found asbestos management at one in seven to be "below acceptable standards". 31% had no written asbestos plan.

• A survey of 16 schools in 2010 by the Asbestos Training and Consultancy Association (ATAC) found none was meeting health and safety rules on managing the substance. I know i'm feeling a little less convinced about how "highly" are schools are being regulated ! Has anyone actually heard anything or received any information at all about asbestos from their kids schools?

When you say they are not being kept up to date OP, how do you mean? Obviously no new asbestos is being placed anywhere in schools. Do you mean that the sureveys/inspections are not taking place as they should be? If so, I would report each school individually and ask why not tbh.

If the school are managaing their asbestos correctly then there will usually be no action to take after an inspection.

Its been taken out of schools and other public buildings as and when building work in the areas it is located in comes up for many years now.

For instance, most school kitchens will have had upgrades of some form or other over the last twenty years and so most kitchens will not contain any asbestos materials at all anymore.

The asbestos regulations for public areas are very stringent and cover the less harmful (non licensable asbestos) too, so until I had actual information regarding a particular school, I still would not be concerned.

Fiona - if a school knew that its asbestos was well managed and not dangerous then I can see why they may skip the supposedly obligatory surveys. (For example if a school knows that it has asbestos in 3 areas, all maintained correctly, all in hidden areas) but chooses to dodge the expensive can easily run into thousands survey then I can undertsand why. I don't agree - but I can understand why they do it iyswim.

I really mean that there is clear evidence that as recent as last year schools were found to be not complying and meeting the obligatory requirements set out by the HSE.
These requirements include roles such as:
Asbestos records to be kept up to date.
Anyone in house or outsourced that manages the asbestos to be fully competent and have received adequate training etc.
Asbestos management plans to be in place.
Miss Lemon your last point epitomises the asbestos problem, the fact that there is some unfound justification to perhaps "skip the supposedly obligatory surveys" is entirely the problem and this casual approach simply will not do.
It is therefore clear that a precautionary approach is a must given the lengthy periods it can take to acquire asbestos illnesses.

I shall be asking at our local school whether they have asbestos,and plans.

Amillion - they must by law have plans if they have any asbestos on site (or even just suspect unknown materials I believe.)

The thing is, I don't think they are going to fess up to non-compliance to a parent, or anyone else for that matter. Why would they tell you the truth? If they don't keep up with mandatory surveying etc, they are hardly likely to bat-an-eye at telling you its all up todate to my mind.
I would ask to see the actual register etc and see what they say.

Fiona - I understand. The problem must surely be, that for some schools the mandatory testing is seen as too expensive for the value it brings. Its not right, but again, I wouldn't know the solution to the problem.

Some local authorities are rigourous in their testing tbf. ExP has been to schools where there has been very little asbestos on site - possibly a minute amount in a below ground boiler room only - but still his firm returns year in year out to fully examine the entire site. This is not at all cost effective -and so some areas just skip over the legislation. There needs to be a more reasonable middle ground.

As has been said - asbestos is perfectly safe when managed correctly. Bear in mind that the people who know about the asbesos in schools are invariably those that also work in that place. They don't want to get asbestososis or mesothelioma themselves and are unlikely to be making decisions that will expose themselves to it as much as pupils etc.

Does that make sense?

Also, I must re-iterate that control of asbestos in the UK is super vigilant in comparison to elsewhere in the world. You are relatively safe here. You are in fact, more liable to come into contact with it in a domestic setting for which there are currently no controlling regulations.
Ripping out an old sink, removing an old shed or garage, taking out an old fireplace - all likley to contain asbestos and many diy'ers simply plough ahead without any knowledge of safe removal and disposal