Toddler chest sinks in while breathing in sleep

[mumtocuddlebundle]

I have researched this and think I might know the cause. Just wondering if anyone else experienced something similar.
DS 2.7 has had a run of really bad colds. He often wakes in the night coughing and blocked up. Been to docs cos of this. He listened to his chest and ruled out chest infection. And said prob not asthma. He said oxygen levels fine and no wheezing. Also he runs around fine during the day without coughing or wheezing.
His colds finally got better, but his breathing is still laboured at night. And his chest sinks in as he try's to breathe. As soon as he wakes this stops. But he seems very tired like he is not getting a good sleep.
I am thinking he may have large or inflamed adenoids, from all the colds. Which are obstructing his breathing through his nose. Other possibility is asthma, but i have a feeling its more to do with his nose being blocked. Going to docs tomorrow to hopefully get antibiotics or referral to ent specialist.
Trying to be armed with as much research myself first as need to get this sorted.

Can you try to film it on your phone tonight to show them? That may help as it is otherwise hard for them to know what it's doing when alseep.

I agree, if you film it then the GP can see for themselves.

Thanks we've done that. Also going to walk to docs with buggy and he'll hopefully fall asleep on the way there, so they can see for themselves.

He may be allergic to bed mites, that's why it may only happen when he is asleep. Put him in the buggy with clean clothes/blanket and no fluffy toys. I would say that even if he falls asleep he will be ok.

If nothing happens in the buggy, do a good wash at 60 degrees of all bed linnen, wash fluffy toys or remove from cot and consider changing the mattress.

Problem with asthma is that fir more people, symptoms are wirse at night.

Thanks. I am not sure about the bedmites. Yesterday it was happening when he was lying on sofa or nap. Unless we have bedmites in sofa too!

I would bet adenoids and/or tonsils. dd2 had sleep apnoea until she had hers removed, aged barely 2 - she would wake up gasping for breath, every few minutes, all night.

She still has a slight hollow in her chest, from those first two years

But sleeps really well now, though still a snorer!

Good luck showing the film to the GP, maybe ask for a referral to ENT for peace of mind/help?

sound like sleep apnoea to me too. My DS has this and occasionally has sternal recession as you've described. I'm not sure how to link but have a look on youtube at sleep apnoea in children and see if its similar. is your DS a mouth breather in the day? often thats the only clue when they're awake, otherwise healthy. And recording it so GP can see/hear for themselves is useful.

Your GP might be able to ask the community paediatric nurses to put him on a sats monitor overnight. The recording will show if he is getting enough oxygen.

The GP can also refer to ENT consultant so the results are ready when the appointment comes round.

Thanks so much for your replys. Interesting to hear others experiences.
Doc appt at 5pm today. Will update later to let you know how we get on.

I just youtubed it and sleep apnea looks like the culprit.

how did you get on at your GP? after a particulary bad afternoon nap where my DS's apnoea was very bad I have decided to go to my GP, I'm a paeds nurse and know respiratory ditress when I see it! hope you got on ok and your worries taken seriously.

Hi,
Sorry it has taken me a while to update. If anyone is still interested:
Went to doc. He basically said he doesn't think there is anything wrong, that ds nose is just easily blocked. I asked if it was normal to have chest sinking in and he said 'it's not that unusual'. Which didn't particularly convince me it is normal. I also asked if he'd be getting enough oxygen at night and he said he would be, otherwise he would wake up panting.
He also said adenoid removal was virtually unheard of now, as the children do eventually outgrow the condition.
However, having said all that, he did offer to refer him to an ent specialist, just to put our minds at rest.
So that's what we have done. Don't want ds to have to go through a load of unnecessary procedures. But think it's worth getting the experts to check him over just in case.

Thanks for the update. I'm not sure I'd be convinced by the GP's reassurances so I'm glad you're seeing an ENT consultant. If s/he says it's OK you can relax.

For what it's worth my DD1 had her tonsils and adenoids removed for sleep apnoea/recurrent tonsillitis and she had about 4 years of respite from the apnoea. It does appear to have come back now but it's currently not bed enough for them to treat it.

my dd has very similar symptoms to those you describe - the only thing I can liken the noise of her snoring to is when they put the little 'hoover' in your mouth at the dentists and suck out all the saliva. Her tonsils are huge and fill virtually the whole of the back of her throat. She is a bit of a mouth breather during the day, and as soon as she lies down to sleep she is snoring and her chest really caves in - it looks as though breathing is a real effort.

We took dd to the gp and got a referral to the local ent dept after which we were referred to their sleep clinic where her oxygen levels were monitored overnight. Dh went with her, and thinks that at the follow up appt (next month) we will be told that her levels are normal, as he was watching the monitor and didn't see any significant dip. I have taken a film of dd sleeping for the follow up appointment, as if we are told there is nothing to be done I want the specialist to tell me whether she thinks what we are seeing when dd is asleep is normal. To me it is definitely not, and I am concerned that her lack of quality sleep is affecting her behaviour during waking hours...

I will be interested to hear how you get on, I will let you know how we do!

Mum,

One thing that would be worth doing is to count the breaths per minute when your daugher is sleeping. If she was struggling for oxygen, her breathing rate would be high as well as the chest retractions (if that is what they are). Normal breathing rate would be 20-30 breaths per minute. Also, when you say her chest is sinking, does that just mean the whole chest, or can you see individual ribs when it is happening?

Would it be possible to prop him up bit at night so he's not flat on his back? Perhaps use pillows and an old duvet to have him in more of a sitting position? :) might help as flat on back is probably the worst position to be in if having trouble breathing :(

mum, yes, still interested, came back to check

Thanks for updating - sounds reassuring, but am very glad you have the ENT referral: one sensible GP! They will know far more about it, and IME some GPs really don't 'get' sleep apnoea. If they can't see it, its not a problem - and it can only be seen/heard when the child is asleep.

In dd's case, it was pretty bad by the time we were seen - and the ENT man didn't hesitate. She was also asleep when we arrived in his surgery, and you could hear her down the hall - I think we scared the waiting room full of people

Adenoids can grow back in some cases, so sometimes its a temporary solution - but in dd's case, the op made the difference between her losing weight and generally going backwards, and a thriving, bright, energetic child with a very full life.

ps another general tip on night breathing - make sure its not too warm in the bedroom: breathing hard is sweaty work!

Thanks everyone. I will update once we have seen specialist. Hopefully won't be too long a wait.
In the meantime, will try checking number of breaths a minute.

hi my daughter is 4 and after 4 years of fighting with doctors shes having her adenoids and tonsils removed on Wednesday she suffers with sleep apnea but her chest does this when she is asleep shes ill 3 weeks out of a month hope is all sorted now have you considered changing pillow to see if helps