Vitamin D Verses Sunburn

[Figallagher]

Hi my LO is 12 weeks old in good health i am just looking for some clarity. we were at baby group last week where they were handing out heathly start vitamin drops I delinced as my partner isn't keen on them and I'm breast feeding and taking vitamins myself. The health worker then told me that vitamin D deficiency is on the rise and causing all sorts of problems for babies and if I wouldn't take the vitamins I must make sure baby gets some sun. Since birth we have gone for walks nearly every day but with the shade on the pushchair up so I decided on Friday when the weather was nice to put him in a sunny spot in the garden for 15 minutes. He was wrapped up in his basket as even in the sun it was not warm and I patted myself on the back for a job well done. Now I'm not so sure a couple of people have warned about sunburn (15 minutes at 10am in march in England?) and others have said else where in the world (Sweden) babies always nap outside in the sunshine. What is the best way to get sunshine safely?

Don't apply suncream but be vigilant about keeping your child covered and in the shade, especially at peak times. Use suncream only for unavoidable strong or prolonged sun exposure. It isn't great for babies either.

I've recently been diagnosed with a severe vit d deficiency which came as a shock.

For adults, it's only 10 minutes exposure on arms, legs and face between 12 and 3 pm. I think it may be 3 times a week. So it's not like you would get sunburned in that time.

We cannot make vit d from the sun in this country in the winter as we are too far north.

If you google you can find out more.

Nice recommendations are that babies should receive supplements. Make sure you are taking enough if you do not want to supplement your baby. RDA is considered inadequate.

If it were me I would supplement the baby with the drops, it's not poison. Then once we get into spring summer make sure baby has some sun on his skin.

Deux: don't you mean "For adults, it's only 10 minutes exposure on arms, legs and face not between 12 and 3 pm. I think it may be 3 times a week".

Skin cancer is a horrible disease and sun exposure in infancy is a major factor. Supplementation is safe, and ordinary high street brands of vitamins contain the RDA.

Deux is right. It is between 12 and 3, when the sun is highest in the sky.

And it only works in summer (March - Oct IIRC) at our latitudes. That's when you need to build up your supplies.

The clash with the sun safety message is why it is a hard Public Health message to sell, but it really isn't vit D or sunburn, that's a false dichotomy.

15 mins a day on face and arms is most unlikely to give you sunburn, and will allow your body to generate the most useable form of vit D (dietary vit D is a different type, not as ... something or other ... Not as useful, anyway.

Vit D deficiency is rising, is associated with all kinds of long term nasties, which I can't remember right now but include type 1 diabetes as well as bone problems.

I have also read that the best time of day to help produce vitamin d is from the midday sun

No, it has to be when the sun is at its highest in order for the sking to synthesise it.

I agree that the message is confusing re sun safety. It doesn't mean donning a bikini on a sun lounger.

Eg pottering around the garden for 10 minutes in shorts and tshirt with the sun on your skin.

NightLark, I was horrified at how important vit d was, I had absolutely no idea. Reduced rates of cancer also suggested by high levels of vit d, high blood pressure with low levels, the list is endless.

A good resource I found, though it is American, is www.vitamindcouncil.org

I've been prescribed a stonking 6000 iu per day and have to supplement until August!

The Australian Cancer Council gives the opposite advice:

"For most people, adequate vitamin D levels are reached through regular daily activity and incidental exposure to the sun. During summer, the majority of people can maintain adequate vitamin D levels from a few minutes of exposure to sunlight on their face, arms and hands or the equivalent area of skin on either side of the peak UV periods (10am to 3pm) on most days of the week".

I think ten mins in the sun in Australia is a bit different from 10 mins over here

'Now I'm not so sure a couple of people have warned about sunburn (15 minutes at 10am in march in England?) '

Seems very unlikely to me.

That depends on where the 'holes' on the ozone layer are that day. The UV index in UK is certainly high enough to cause damage.

It's up to the individual to decide what their appetite for risk is, and in this case to weigh safe supplementation against the known increased risks from sun exposure.

We don't use suncream unless we're sitting half naked in the sun. Just be vigilant.. a bit of sun is good for you!

I walked DD for hours each day last summer, between 1 and 5 miles, wearing whatever was appropriate weatherwise. In Sept I was diagnosed with Vit D deficiency. Couldn't believe it, I thought no way was I not getting enough sun! I'm now on Vits. I think I will get some drops for DD as she us in all intents getting the same exposure to myself.

I think with sun exposure it is clearer when you are in danger yet with Vit D it is very hard to see if you are deficient. My main fear was a link with cancer as it already runs in my family.

And yes Australian sun is entirely different. I think there are moves in Scotland to raise public awareness of this issue as the problem is worse the further north you go and the fairer you are.

FWIW my GP said that currently there is an estimation that 50% of the UK population have a deficiency. They are being asked to test for it more often and are just discovering the extent of the problem apparently. I think we will hear a lot more about Vit D soon.

what everyone said. I was horrified to find 16 yo has a severe deficiency. We never use suncream either. So he is now on supplements.

Just to add - the darker your skin, the more difficult it is to synthesise the vit D from brief sunlight exposure. I can't remember if there are different recommendations depending on skin colour, but it is an issue.

deux I looked into this for work about 3-4 years ago, and there was sod-all organised information around at the time, just a lot of speculation and a few fairly well buried technical reports.

It is likely to be my biggest professional regret at this stage in my career that, although I was convinced by what I read, I didn't manage to convince others or network effectively to get 'something done' locally.

I am very happy that things are moving on now as I have no doubt it is a genuine problem for many, and an easy one to fix for most.

Would it be just as good to have 5x 2minutes as 1x 10minutes?

In which case you coud take them out 5 x for 2 minutes at a time. I doubt even the palest baby could burn in 2 minutes in UK in March.

Uk advice:

The amount of time you need in the sun to make enough vitamin D changes from person to person. It also depends on things like skin type, time of day, time of year, and where you are in the world.

But the amount of time in the sun that you need to make enough vitamin D is typically short and less than the amount that makes skin redden or burn. It should be enough to regularly go outside for a matter of minutes around the middle of the day without sunscreen. When it comes to sun exposure, little and often is best, and the more skin that is exposed, the greater the chance of making enough vitamin D before burning.

We dont make much vitamin D in winter:

From October to March our skin cannot make vitamin D because of low levels of UVB in winter sunlight. But for most people if normal levels are built up in the summer, our bodies store enough of the vitamin to last us through winter.

But but, last year there were only about 3 days when it was warm enough to expose one's arms!

there was loads of baking days last year. I was camping in them and very hot. (and burnt my skin)

Hmm, well I'm Afraid I don't take my coat off for anything less than 25degrees or my jumper off for anything less than 30. Brrrrrrrrr.

I was camping too. All I remember is rain.