Help I am in a bit of a state

[craziedaisy]

DS has been running a high fever since yesterday- spiking at about 39.5. I have been giving him paracetamol and nurofen to try and keep it down. Took him to out of hours GP who said I am not looking after him properly. I should not be treating a fever even if it gets to 40 or beyond. I had him stripped because he was so hot in the waiting room and he said that I didn't need to. He decided that it was a viral infection and to just take him home and look after him with plenty of fluids.

I am in a bit of a state as he said I shouldn't give so much painkillers. I am always very careful to ensure that he has the maximum of 4 doses of paracetamol and 3 doses of nurofen but I did give him nurofen today only and hour and half after the calpol as he was still very hot with a temp over 39. Will I have damaged him by doing this. Please advise as I am in a state

out of hours GP is a fucking idiot

if he is uncomfortable you give him paracetomal and nurofen as you were doing before

and when he's better write a letter of complaint

hospitals give calpol and nurofen together

as in at the same time so no categorically no damage at all

There was a recent study that said temperatures were used by the body to kill the bacteria causing the infection and the use of meds to bring down the temperature meant that germs hung around for longer - wouldn't be the case as he said what your son has is viral though?

You won't have damaged him but you are over reacting to the temp.
Calm down a bit.

Dd gets high spiking temperatures and I never give medicine at all - never have. She didn't even have it when she was in hospital with rotavirus. The hospital and I just kept her cool.

Just give her one or t'other according to the instructions, keep him cool and try not to get so anxious. A raised temperature is common.
If you get really concerned again call nhs direct.

How is he in himslef? Is he lethargic or sleepy?

You've done nothing wrong

Sounds like what I do and most people I know do

you can give the two different meds at the same time or staggered, I often end up giving ds calpol, temp stabilises but doesn't fall, so I give nurofen an hour later or so and then it comes down.

They don't interfere with each other. Some OOH GPs are weird. Don't worry. You're doing fine.

Don'#t sponge down your boy, that can make them v uncomfortable, just keep him unclothed or lightly clothed with a sheet, not a duvet, maybe a fan on in the room, that sort of thing. Gentle temp control, nothing drastic. Follow your instinct and keep him comfy as poss.

I hope it passes soon.

Thanks everyone i feel a bit less of a bad mum now. He has gone to sleep now so just keeping an eye on him now. Doctor said I could let him put on as many clothes as he wanted to and let him snuggle under a blanket - he said it amounted to child abuse to strip them off when they are shivery but I have just got him on the bed under just a sheet.

I think I do panic a bit when the children have temperatures.

Oh My Good Lord where do they find these eejits? The dr I mean. I know that the OOH pool sometimes draws Drs from those who have retired or been made to retire that sort of thing.

I've had some appalling experiences with OOH docs, please don't take this twit seriously, he was clearly on a rant and a power trip and wanted to make you feel like shit.

Seriously you've done NOTHING wrong. Don't do anything that makes ds upset, I was always being advised by NHS direct to sponge down ds1 (years ago) and he screamed It was hell. Then they changed that advice. So I shouldn't have bothered.

Think how you feel when you have a fever and try to go with the flow - if he's cold, give him a sheet, it should warm him up just enough. No extremes iyswim.
If the temp continues to rise despite the meds then that's when you worry as it would indicate a bacterial infection needing treatment. Viruses tend to rise twice a day or so and respond well to calpol or nurofen or both.

Tbh I agree with the doctor re:clothing when they shiver, even if that's against all the current wisdom, it would seem. I wouldn't necessarily go as far as putting a thick duvet over him, but if you gave him the fever meds and he's shivering, do cover him with a blanket.

It's normal for kids to run high fevers with infections, it will not do him any damage.

To think when I was a child my mum would cover me with a down duvet and give me a lime tree tea to drink to sweat out the fever (or toxins) out With no fever meds, unless temp was over 40.I still do that for when I'm ill- and weirdly never have fever for longer than a day.

When DD had a flu few months ago and ran fever over 40, I alternated paracetamol with ibuprofen, as the fever wouldn't stay low for longer than 2 hrs. It was just to keep her comfortable.

When my DD had fevers, out gp advised alternating calpol and Nurofen every 4 hours to keep the fever under control. If we didn't, the fever would spike to 40 and DD looked so sick and floppy that I'd think I needed to get her to hospital. So I don't think using meds to control fever is harmful, who knows if it makes the illness last longer.

If the child is shivery it means the temp is coming down too quickly and the fever is not being controlled which is not good - that's why you have to keep monitoring them constantly so you can remove sheets and blankets or add depending on the temp. I would never strip always leave a cotton vest and pants, for the reasons above.

Really hope he's better soon!

Don't do anything to cool him down, if he gets cold then his body will have to work on warming him, this will make him feel poorly. Lightly dressed with a medium blanket is good.

Hope he's better soon.

I always tend to keep a vest and pants on too. It just seems like a good idea.

Then add a thin sheet if the child seems to want it. Being awake and watching the whole time is part and parcel! It's so tiring isn't it.

You are not a bad Mum at all, you are doing what the vast majority do when their child has a temp.

When we were kids my sister had convulsions and the ambulance men put her in a bath of very cold water - on two separate occasions and my parents several times after that! Times and advice change - they now say you shouldn't make them too cold because they then shiver then their bodies heat up, to try to make them comfortable by getting the layers right for them. So try to cool them down without making them feel cold.

There's nothing wrong with using the meds as you did.

Essentially the Dr was right, but his bedside manner leaves A LOT to be desired and it wouldn't be out of order to write a letter of complaint.

I hope DS has a settled night and you manage to get some sleep.

That is the new theory. I think having a temperature makes you feel crappy so I always try to get rid of them. I had a fit when I was a baby caused by a high temp so i've always tried to bring them down. We sponge down with tepid water and alternate calpol and nurofen. My ds always sky rocket temperatures. I have beaten you with 39.9 and the doctor asked if it was that high because it was hot outside. I said "Well we're all normal temperature aren't we?!" Try not to worry. I also give plenty of fluids.

My daughter had what I thought wasn't too high a temperature, generally 38 degrees. She ended up having convulsions and stopped breathing for a while. When she was taken into hospital they gave her 8mls paracetamol and 2.5 mls ibuprofen alternating every 4 - 6 hours plus antibiotics. It turned out to be tonsilitis.
Don't take temperatures lightly. Giving appropriate medication will not harm them.

The new theory has been kicking around a while now.

Basically, the fever is the body's way of fighting off the infection and we should not automatically give painkillers.

BUT - there are a few things to watch for. Temperature spiking up and down can be dangerous. And if the temperature goes over 40°C then it is time to give painkillers.

I tend to let them go until they go over 39°C or if they are feeling grotty. If they are fine, just feverish then let it go.

More info here on what to do when your child has a fever and what to look for.

It sounds like he almost had the basis for an understanding of temperatures and then missed the target entirely when he tried to explain them.

Generally, a temperature does not require medication on its own. You don't need to bring down a temp just because it's there. Medicating according to a child's need for pain relief is different. A temperature is the body doing its job.

The risk with febrile convulsions is the speed at which the temp rises (hence why GetToFalkirk's dd will have had them at a low temp) and not caused by the temp itself. This is why it's important to keep them stable and try and avoid the shivering mentioned which is the body trying to artificially heat the body in a quick way.

Generally looking at the child is the best way to go, adjusting loose cotton layers to how they're feeling. No sponging as this lowers the temp too quickly and is a shock to the system. Air circulating and cool drinks etc. Either paracetamol or nurofen if they're unwell with the temp, switch to the other if one isn't working and then take advice. Alternating can be useful in some circumstances but not necessary as routine.

This chap sounds like he was a rather austere man with a terrible bedside manner and didn't explain himself at all.

There are different schools of thought on whether fever should be treated or not. The GPs in the practice we used to be always said that fever should not be treated (dd had for over two weeks between 40 and 41C) and always diagnosed everything as a virus. DD ended up with near fatal bacterial pneumonia on oxygen and drips in hospital. In hospital they treated her fever even if it was at 38.5. The paediatricians told me that the moment fever was over 38.5 they give standard calpol and if it doesn't come down then also calprofen (or whatever brand they use). Our new GPs (we have changed as the other GPs were totally incompetent), are also of the view that fever needs to be treated. To start with to make the child feel better and also, if it doesn't respond to medication it could indicate that the underlying cause is bacterial and needs treatment with antibiotics. So, you have not done anything wrong at all, you have definitely not harmed your child and I hope you don't encounter that out of hours GP again as he seems to be out of his depth. Don't forget many GPs have very little knowledge about treating children ...

DS still asleep but starting to shiver and shake. Taken temp and been at 38.4 for last hour. It is 9 hours since nurofen and 5 hours since calpol. Should I just watch and wait

If he is starting to shiver and shake I'd up the blankets, keep him constant if you can.

Temp suddeny went up 39.3 so ended up giving 7.5ml of nurofen. He is sleeping now but drenched in sweat. Just hope he will be a bit more comfortable now.

how old is he daisy?

He is 4 years old